Motul Gear 300

[Tremo]

I was out running errands and dropped by that local Subaru tuner shop as mentioned above. Had a nice chat with the guys there. They run race Subarus and are pretty serious racers, have sponsors, etc. They run Neo oil exclusively. They say so does Subaru in Japan.

I asked about Motul Gear 300. They say they used to run it until Motul changed the formula (and has admitted to doing so), and the new formula isn't as good as the old.

He told me that when it's time to change the transmission oil in my Outback to come on down and they'll have plenty of Neo 75W90HD available. According to them , on a street car, the HD is plenty good enough and there should be no grind when shifting unless you try to shift into first on the roll at too high a speed.

 

[tdi-rick]

Originally Posted By: Tremo



I asked about Motul Gear 300. They say they used to run it until Motul changed the formula (and has admitted to doing so), and the new formula isn't as good as the old.




Interested to hear what they say about the Motul, or more to the point, what has deteriorated in shift performance since the newer formulation several years ago. (reformulated '03 or so ??)

The old blend appeared to not use any VII's at all (VI 140) with a kinematic viscosity of 14.2cSt@ 100*C
The new blend has a very high VI of 222 with a viscosity of 15.2cSt, and so is much more fluid at lower temps. In theory it should shift better when cold. Maybe the VII's are shearing in use ?

I've always been very partial towards Neo, the old Oz importer looked after me very well when I raced (product sponsorship) and the stuff plain worked.

 

[SubLGT]

Originally Posted By: tdi-rick
..........or more to the point, what has deteriorated in shift performance since the newer formulation several years ago. (reformulated '03 or so ??)............


The latest gear300 formulation contains moly, and the earlier version did not. In another thread, Molakule stated that moly interferes with synchro friction modifiers.

 

[Tremo]

Also, it is not pure group 4 any longer. Motul is now group 3. They told the Tuners that it would cost too much to stay pure real synthetic.

Tuners say Neo is still pure group 4.

 

[d00df00d]

If Gear 300 is now group 3 AND has a much higher VI, which would mean it had a ton of VIIs, wouldn't it also have a much lower flash point? Anyone know what the flash points were before and after?

 

[tdi-rick]

Flash is identical on both blends, 200*C

I don't believe that the newer Gear 300 has a GIII base as it's pour point is -60*C ! AFAIK only esters could achieve that, although it would have to have a healthy whack of VII's to get the VI they claim. If these are similar to the ester VII's Castrol use, they would be fairly stable/almost unshearable.
Remember Terry's comment when the old GC was Gas. Spec. tested and the bases discerned ? he said the VII's mimicked base oils in stability.
Old Gear 300's PP was -39*C.

From the latest French PDS.

"Racing gearbox and differential lubricant
100% Synthetic – Ester based

STANDARDS API GL4 and GL5 / MIL-L-2105D
100% synthetic extreme pressure lubricant for an efficient anti wear protection, a better resistance at
high temperature and a longer life time.
0% shear loss : Unshearable oil film in extreme conditions.
Stays in 90 grade after KRL 20 hours shear test as requested by SAE J306 Standard, July 1998 update
Very high lubricating power which decreases friction and wear.
90 grade at hot temperature to provide outstanding oil film resistance at hot temperature and/or to
reduce transmission noise.
Fluid at low temperature to allow easier gear shifting when the gearbox is cold.
Less effort required on the gear lever to shift the gears.
Suitable for any type of seal and yellow material used in gearboxes design.
Anti-corrosion, Anti-foam."


Neo 75W-90HD was always di-ester based.
Anyone have a current PDS for the NEO ?
I had some old ones, but lost them when my old HD crashed.

 

[Tremo]

All I can say is the subaru tuners told me they spoke with Motul and were told that Motul gear 300 was going group 3 for financial considerations.

Next time the Outback needs a front transaxle fluid change, I think I will give the Neo a try.

Does anyone here have that Napa part number for the crush-washers used under the drainplugs on Subies? Thanks.

 

[d00df00d]

Thanks, tdi-rick

Well if the flash point is the same, the pour point is lower, the VI is MUCH higher, and they're still making those "unshearable" claims, I'd be comfortable inferring (but obviously not claiming for certain) that the new formula is not worse than the old one. Agreed? Or am I missing something obvious?

Remember, group 3 isn't necessarily worse than group 4 or 5 these days...

 

[tdi-rick]

I don't understand why Motul would 'dilute' their premium lube when they have products that already cross the entire range from the full synthetic oils through Motylgear 75W-90 (semi-synthetic) right through to straight mineral oils like Gearbox 80W-90 ? (which does contain MoS2)

Are they getting the Gear 300 mixed up with the Motylgear 75W-90 ??
That is a Group III based oil (Motul have always called their Group III blends 'Tecnosynthese' for semi-synthetic)

There are always those that will pay top $ for a premium product.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: tdi-rick
Are they getting the Gear 300 mixed up with the Motylgear 75W-90 ??
That is a Group III based oil (Motul have always called their Group III blends 'Tecnosynthese' for semi-synthetic)

Aha. If that's the case, it'd explain the confusion nicely.

 

[tdi-rick]

Found some easily accessible TDS's for Motul trans fluids

New Gear 300 http://www.motul-oil.co.uk/motul data sheets/Gear 300 75W-90 3178 (GB).pdf

Old Gear 300 http://matrixsyntheticoils.com/datasheets/Gear_300_75w90.pdf

Motylgear 75W-90 http://matrixsyntheticoils.com/datasheets/Motylgear75W-90.pdf

Motul Gearbox 80W-90 http://matrixsyntheticoils.com/datasheets/Gearbox_80w90.pdf