Motul Gear 300

[Tremo]

Lots of talk over on the SubaruForester forum about this stuff for use in the subie front manual transaxle. It's a synthetic GL5 with no limited slip friction modifiers.

Where does one buy this stuff? Is it available only from mail order?

One "eggspurt" over there says it's a lot better than Redline 75W90NS, which is also GL5 synth with no limited slip friction modifiers.

Subaru says specifically not to use oils there with LSD modifiers because it interferes with the tranny synchros (too slippery).

The Eggspurt's recommendation is a cocktail of the Motul mixed with a quart of Redline Lightweight Shockproof. Anybody have any experience with this shockproof stuff?

Thanks.

 

[d00df00d]

Gear 300 is one of the best gear lubricants you can buy. I wouldn't mix it with anything.

Did the guy ever say why he thought you should mix in the Lightweight Shockproof?

 

[MrBeachcomber]

Originally Posted By: Tremo
...Anybody have any experience with this shockproof stuff?...


Redline Shockproof is essentially a lighter weight gear oil with microscopic extreme pressure modifiers dispersed throughout the oil.

I've used it in my racing vehicles to extract the last measure of HP from the vehicle while protecting my rear end gears from scoring. I cannot imagine using it in a vehicle that will be driven on the street, but YMMV.

 

[Tremo]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Gear 300 is one of the best gear lubricants you can buy. I wouldn't mix it with anything.

Did the guy ever say why he thought you should mix in the Lightweight Shockproof?


I think it is from his personal experience. He says in the Subaru manual transaxle it helps prevent gear grind while shifting. They refer to lightweight shockproof as "smurfblood". Using it in cocktails seems to be rather popular over there.

Sheet mon, if it will stop the grind when I shift into first on the roll, I'll use it.

 

[Tremo]

Originally Posted By: MrBeachcomber
Originally Posted By: Tremo
...Anybody have any experience with this shockproof stuff?...


Redline Shockproof is essentially a lighter weight gear oil with microscopic extreme pressure modifiers dispersed throughout the oil.

I've used it in my racing vehicles to extract the last measure of HP from the vehicle while protecting my rear end gears from scoring. I cannot imagine using it in a vehicle that will be driven on the street, but YMMV.


Interesting. The local parts shop carries Redline and has some of this lightweight shockproof, I think I'll buy a quart.

But back to the original question, where can you buy Motul Gear 300 over the counter?

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: Tremo
I think it is from his personal experience. He says in the Subaru manual transaxle it helps prevent gear grind while shifting. They refer to lightweight shockproof as "smurfblood". Using it in cocktails seems to be rather popular over there.

Sheet mon, if it will stop the grind when I shift into first on the roll, I'll use it.

The only anecdotes I've heard about any shockproof oil were Heavy Shockproof in Maxima manual transaxles. I heard that the oil separated and the lighter parts spun out at high gear speeds, leaving the globules to gum up the synchros. The only solution was to change it VERY frequently. Different oil and different transaxle, though. FWIW.

I always prefer to keep it simple. If Gear 300 isn't what you need, try to find a better single fluid.

 

[unDummy]

When you mix fluids, you don't know the end result without some VOA/UOA comparisons.

Ford, Torco, Synlube, Redline, Amsoil, RoyalPurple, BG, Neo, Silkolene, Eneos, Idemitsu.... have GL5 gear oils that either don't have LSD additive, or need LSD additive if chatter occurs(possibly minimal dose friendly to manuals).

Toyota has a non-LSD GL5 75w85 gear oil. Might be a good option for non-turbo'd Subies or northern climates. I bet those mixing their own fluids end up in the 85wt range anyway, which usually improves shifting.

Theres also a whole range of Mack GO-J 75w90 GL5's. If you research them(via email or call), you'll find that many don't have LSD additive.

BTW, when picking an MTF/MTL, its hits or miss. Two identical transmissions might shift best with different fluids. Tolerances!

 

[SubLGT]

Use Subaru's "Extra-S" gear oil. Avoid cocktails.

 

[Tremo]

Originally Posted By: SubLGT
Use Subaru's "Extra-S" gear oil. Avoid cocktails.


That's what's in there now and the durn thing still grinds when shifting into first on the roll. Common problem with Subies from what I read. It grinds less now than it did before I took it to the dealer and they changed the fluids, so the Extra-S did certainly help somewhat. But that dammed grind when going into first while still rolling 5 mph bugs the crud outta me.

The Eggspurt over on the Forester board says putting in about 25% of the lightweight shockproof stops that. Maybe i can use a hand pump to suck out a little of the factory fill thru the dipstick hole and replace with a little of the LW shockproof and see what happens.

 

[SubLGT]

What year and model is your Subaru?

 

[SubLGT]

There is some question about how well the shockproof mixes with the gear oil. See:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=920674&highlight=uoa+cocktail&page=65

 

[Tremo]

Originally Posted By: SubLGT
What year and model is your Subaru?


2004 Outback Wagon, 2.5 NA, manual.

 

[Tremo]

Originally Posted By: SubLGT
There is some question about how well the shockproof mixes with the gear oil. See:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=920674&highlight=uoa+cocktail&page=65


The cocktail being discussed there is "Scotties". different mix than what is recommended by the eggspurt on the forester forum. Scottie is mixing the lightweight shockproof with synchromesh and with Hypoy C. That's 3 different oils.

I'd like to see how the shockproof mixes with either the Gear 300 or with Redline 75W90NS.

 

[tdi-rick]

Originally Posted By: Tremo



I'd like to see how the shockproof mixes with either the Gear 300 or with Redline 75W90NS.


Why would you want to ??

The 'fix' used to be either Motul Gear 300 or Neo 75W-90HD, why would you want to cocktail these exxy, well formulated lubes for indeterminate results ?
Here in OZ either these two or Castrol Syntrax used to be the gun solutions.

BTW, anyone ever tried Torco RTF in a Subie ?

 

[unDummy]

The Scotty's mix seems to have thinned the oil out too much causing an increase in wear. Glad to see someone doing a UOA on it in the Sub forum.

It was at least 3 years ago that I didn't recommend that mix.

Taking a GL5 15cst gear oil and diluting it with GL4 9cst 'mesh and unknown wt shockproof gear oil and expecting it to protect wasn't a good idea. Sure, when you go thinner, shifting usually is easier/better and is why most gear boxes filled with 90wt have stepped down to 85wt, simply to appease the consumer.

As I've said before, and over and over again, you'll have to find the best fluid that works for YOU. If GL5 is required, stick with GL5. If you're in a cold climate, or are NOT trying to push a bazillion HP thru the tranny, 75w85 GL5's are available. Various other GL5 90wt gear oil can be tried, until you find the one that feels best for you.

 

[Tremo]

I think the "lightweight shockproof" is supposed to be similar to a 75W140 oil.

But I agree, the Scotty cocktail sounds too risky to me. I'm more inclined to try the eggspurt cocktail of 25% lightweight shockproof and 75% GL5 Motul Gear 300.

One question that nobody has answered, is the Motul available anythere other than mail order?

 

[unDummy]

Redline Lightweight Shockproof:
A unique gear oil designed to lubricate racing transmissions and transaxles which see serious loads (not recommended for most syncro-type transmissions). It has excellent low-temperature flow which allows easier shifting when cold. May be used to obtain maximum power transfer in racing differentials which do not see high temperatures. Similar to a 75W140 gear oil, but with the lower internal friction of an SAE 30 motor oil.

Whats it say about syncro-type transmissions????

 

[Tremo]

Originally Posted By: tdi-rick
Originally Posted By: Tremo



I'd like to see how the shockproof mixes with either the Gear 300 or with Redline 75W90NS.


Why would you want to ??

The 'fix' used to be either Motul Gear 300 or Neo 75W-90HD, why would you want to cocktail these exxy, well formulated lubes for indeterminate results ?
Here in OZ either these two or Castrol Syntrax used to be the gun solutions.

BTW, anyone ever tried Torco RTF in a Subie ?


How would you rate the Neo 75W90HD to the Motul Gear 300 and to Redline 75W90NS?

I've found a local place that stocks the Neo. I assume that this Neo 75W90HD does NOT have limited slip friction modifiers built in?

 

[tdi-rick]

I've only ever used the Neo 75W-90HD and that was some 14 years ago in a dog box transaxle, I'm sure it would have been re-formulated since but AFAIK it's always been OK to use in a synchro 'box.
A number of years back it was the fix in WRX's, with the well known WRX tuners MRT pushing it as their preferred lube.
This thread might be worth a read too, just to confuse the issue http://www.rexnet.net.au/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t78574-0.html

I'm currently using Torco RTF in one manual 'box and it works well, supposedly meeting/exceeding the obsolete GL-6 spec with very good synchro performance.
I intend to try some Gear 300 soon in a box that normally specifies a 75W-80.

Also remember 'boxes can be idiosyncratic, what works in one may not shift as well in another, and what shift action one person prefers another may not like or place less of a priority on it, eg. I place great emphasis on up-shift action, the faster/easier the better, I'm unfussed with synchro performance on a downshift as I always double de-clutch/heel and toe.

 

[Tremo]

Originally Posted By: tdi-rick
I've only ever used the Neo 75W-90HD and that was some 14 years ago in a dog box transaxle, I'm sure it would have been re-formulated since but AFAIK it's always been OK to use in a synchro 'box.
A number of years back it was the fix in WRX's, with the well known WRX tuners MRT pushing it as their preferred lube.
This thread might be worth a read too, just to confuse the issue http://www.rexnet.net.au/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t78574-0.html

I'm currently using Torco RTF in one manual 'box and it works well, supposedly meeting/exceeding the obsolete GL-6 spec with very good synchro performance.
I intend to try some Gear 300 soon in a box that normally specifies a 75W-80.

Also remember 'boxes can be idiosyncratic, what works in one may not shift as well in another, and what shift action one person prefers another may not like or place less of a priority on it, eg. I place great emphasis on up-shift action, the faster/easier the better, I'm unfussed with synchro performance on a downshift as I always double de-clutch/heel and toe.


apparently the Neo is still appreciated by the Subie crowd, the local place I mentioned who stocks it is run by a bunch of turbo Impreza tuners. IOW, A subie specialty shop. I think I'll drop by and chat them up. Place is in San Jose, CA, called Mann Engineering. (I am in no way associated with them.)