Motul 300v Motorcycle oil-flat tappet failure??

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Brit33

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Over 2 years ago I had a failure of some flat tappets in my alfa romeo 33.

I have just realized by reading some of the Motul 300v threads here that the supplier gave me Motul Motorcycle 300V 4T (4 litre version).

Due to my ignorance at that time I believed him when he said it was the same as the silver cans for cars. I bought 1 x 4 litre jug of this and 1 x 2 litre silver can (car stuff).
4.5 litres went in to the sump.

Coincidence that I had tappet failure about 8 months after the usage of this?

I don't know. Just a thought.
 
What engine do you have in the alfa? I pretty much doubt that the oil is designed both for car anf motorcykle use.

On the other hand it is pretty dificult to prove it is the reason for your engine failure.
 
I used motul for years in bikes with hardened rockers and highlift came. Zero wear on the cam journals or anything else.

I fail To see how it would be all that different from running rotella...

Honest answer, it's an alpha. It was probably just its time of the month. Gorgeous temperamental beasts that they are.
 
Originally Posted By: SuzukiGoat
I used motul for years in bikes with hardened rockers and highlift came. Zero wear on the cam journals or anything else.

I fail To see how it would be all that different from running rotella...

Honest answer, it's an alpha. It was probably just its time of the month. Gorgeous temperamental beasts that they are.


You're most likely very correct. Just happened at the end of their shelf life.
they had been beaten to death for 23 years.

I put new cams in and new INA tappets.
run in properly and been dead quiet since (just hearing the other alfa noises now!!)
 
I used Motul 300V 4T in my Audi. UOAs showed it worked just fine, even with track and autocross use, and some very cold winter starts.

There's almost no difference except that the moto versions have some extra boron, if you're wondering.
 
The oil did not cause your problem. In fact the oil you used might have just given you a few more miles before the failure. You were using a very good oil.
 
Thanks for the confirmation.

Actually just gone back to 300v (silver cans!!).
15w50.

Will try going down to a 40wt oil but in 2 steps as I have low pressure at hot idle.
Above 1200 rpm I get loads of OP.

will mix 50% 300v chrono 10w40 with 300v 15w50 and monitor the idle.
if change is insignificant will prefer to go down to 10w40 chrono 300v 100%.
 
Originally Posted By: tudorart
300v both motorcycle and racing have a good chunk of hydrocraked base oil. Things have changed lately...


I wasn't sure so:

Quote:

Hydrocracked Base Stocks

Engine oils are being introduced into the marketplace that utilize Group II or hydrocracked base stocks. The manufacturing process for these base oils removes contaminants, such as sulfur, nitrogen, iron, and other materials normally found in conventional solvent-refined base oils.

Advantages of hydrocracking technology may include longer lubricant life, fewer deposits, less maintenance, increased uptime and, under certain conditions, extended drains. Some factors which may affect lubricant life are high oil temperatures, presence of water or dirt in an oil, entrained air, loss of additive performance, and contamination from combustion byproducts.

Products formulated with Group II or hydrocracked base oils have shown advanced performance in the areas of oil oxidation, thermal degradation, and stability. However, it is important to remember that dirt from the environment, unburned fuel, and other contaminants will play a key role with extended oil drain intervals.

For years, Universal Lubricants, LLC has designed engine oils to perform over an extended life. We will continue to provide our line of premium engine oils formulated with conventional base stocks (Dyna-Plex 21C SHPD, Universal Dezol). We also provide Dyna-Plex 21C Durazol HC Engine Oils formulated with hydrocracked (Group II) base oil and tailored to reach an unmatched level of performance.
 
Originally Posted By: Brit33
Thanks for the confirmation.

Actually just gone back to 300v (silver cans!!).
15w50.

Will try going down to a 40wt oil but in 2 steps as I have low pressure at hot idle.
Above 1200 rpm I get loads of OP.

will mix 50% 300v chrono 10w40 with 300v 15w50 and monitor the idle.
if change is insignificant will prefer to go down to 10w40 chrono 300v 100%.

That won't do what you want, and low OP at idle is usually a non-issue since it's low/no load. Find the manual and look for an oil pressure target (usually X PSI/Bar at X RPM) and if you're on target your job is done.
 
Originally Posted By: brandini
Originally Posted By: Brit33
Thanks for the confirmation.

Actually just gone back to 300v (silver cans!!).
15w50.

Will try going down to a 40wt oil but in 2 steps as I have low pressure at hot idle.
Above 1200 rpm I get loads of OP.

will mix 50% 300v chrono 10w40 with 300v 15w50 and monitor the idle.
if change is insignificant will prefer to go down to 10w40 chrono 300v 100%.

That won't do what you want, and low OP at idle is usually a non-issue since it's low/no load. Find the manual and look for an oil pressure target (usually X PSI/Bar at X RPM) and if you're on target your job is done.


Ok yes I heard that before. No load so not to worry too much as long as the low warning like is not on.
Haven't found the exact manual yet but similar ones state 5-15 psi for hot idle.
10 is my case.

So just go straight to the 10w40?

15w50 has been too thick on start ups.

Rest of the op range under load is more than sufficient.
50psi at 3200rpm
Bypass is fully open at 88 psi.
65 is about max I get at 4500rpm plus.

It only hits the bypass limit when cold.
Valve works.
 
Last edited:
What I see nobody mentioned is that the motorcycle version has no friction modifiers energy conserving thingy since that would shorten the lifespan of the wet clutches found in bikes
 
Originally Posted By: Andy636
What I see nobody mentioned is that the motorcycle version has no friction modifiers energy conserving thingy since that would shorten the lifespan of the wet clutches found in bikes


The ester basestocks themselves act as friction modifiers.
 
Originally Posted By: Andy636
What I see nobody mentioned is that the motorcycle version has no friction modifiers energy conserving thingy since that would shorten the lifespan of the wet clutches found in bikes


I mentioned it... when I said I didn't see how it would be any different than running rotella.

Didn't spell it out because I figured anyone running motul double ester has some idea of what's going on.

I used to run it for 12 hours or less in my parallel twin Polaris, then drain that oil and dump it into my vtwin mower.

Probably one of a very small number of lawnmowers running 17$ a quart oil.


But yeah... you couldn't convince me that oil had any deleterious effect on engine wear. Its like liquid gold.
 
Originally Posted By: Chris142
That motul mc oil stands up to a mc engine at over 10000 rpm! It was not the cause of your failure.


300v better be capable of more than just 10k.
at 10k my bike hasnt even made max hp yet.
there are times i shift at the 13,500 rev limiter but usually just a hair before!
and since i've tested motul 5100 and it was one of the best oils i have tested, i can only think that 300v would be at least as good.
 
What's the ZDDP levels in 300V? In some newer oils, the ZDDP levels have been reduced and the failure rate of tappets has increased.

On any older flat tappet engine, I now require 1200ppm ZDDP coupled with significant viscosity.
 
Originally Posted By: Brit33
[
Haven't found the exact manual yet but similar ones state 5-15 psi for hot idle.
10 is my case.


I don't know about an Audi but I think 10psi at 203ºF at idle is perfect on Mr.RC45... that
works out to about 10 PSI for every 1,000 RPM... which means I'm flowing more oil through the
critical bearings instead of diverting that precious oil through the by pass valve...

10 PSI at 203ºF
RC45Coolant203FOil10.jpg
 
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