Motorists outraged at paying ‘voluntary’ red-light

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at Los Angeles City Officials.

I mean... Really?
 
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Originally Posted By: Cristobal
You cannot blame businesses and people for leaving this state in crowds.


Is this really happening? Seriously? I live next door in a very business friendly state (second lowest tax burden in the union) NO personal state income tax, one of only 4 states with no corporate income tax and I have yet to see any business relocate here.

When I lived in PA, all I heard about was how the high state taxes were running companies out of the state...yeah right. I say it was the weather.
 
Originally Posted By: Cristobal
You cannot blame businesses and people for leaving this state in crowds.

CA will do anything to extract money from the pockets of business and citizens.

I don't know how many of you used to listen to Loveline back in the day when Adam Carolla was on or listen to his podcast now but its always entertaining listening to him talk about "Rapebank" (Burbank) and their police department writing "chicken-s tickets" like their crackdown on jay-walking. Jay-walking? Really?

In other news, while CA attempts to wring blood from a stone:

LA Times

Quote:

Brown signs California Dream Act
New law covers private funding; governor signals he may also favor expanding public Cal Grants eligibility.

excerpt:
Following through on a campaign promise, Gov. Jerry Brown signed a law Monday easing access to privately funded financial aid for undocumented college students. He also signaled that he was likely to back a more controversial measure allowing those students to seek state-funded tuition aid in the future.

Assemblyman Gil Cedillo (D-Los Angeles), author of the private financial aid measure, described it as an important but incremental step toward expanding opportunities for deserving students who were brought to the U.S. illegally through no choice of their own. Cedillo is pressing ahead with a more expansive measure that would make certain undocumented students eligible for the state's Cal Grants and other forms of state tuition aid.


In short, if they get their way illegal immigrants can get in-state tuition rates and Cal Grants while an "immigrant" from the state of Washington gets socked with out-of-state tuition rates.

Couple that with Brown's latest attempt to do an end-run around the 1992 US Supreme Court ruling regarding online, telephone, and mail order businesses and sales tax collection by trying to redefine "physical presence" of a retailer to include those who use affiliate marketing programs (Amazon and Overstock.com were the targets of this attempt) and it is indeed no wonder why people and businesses go "Hmmm. Oh look, Nevada! Let's go."
 
Have to agree. They say this will go away or that will move elsewhere... Well who is going to buy the widget or service if they go elsewhere? Really? Move from a high population density area to the boonies? Move to a more business friendly place? Where, china?

But back OT, is this the legal reality everywhere or just how it is written there?
 
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: Cristobal
You cannot blame businesses and people for leaving this state in crowds.


Is this really happening? Seriously? I live next door in a very business friendly state (second lowest tax burden in the union) NO personal state income tax, one of only 4 states with no corporate income tax and I have yet to see any business relocate here.

When I lived in PA, all I heard about was how the high state taxes were running companies out of the state...yeah right. I say it was the weather.


I don't know if I'd really say "running out" businesses. Its more like financially crippling existing businesses to the point that some have to close up shop. The biggest impact has been on new startups in the state from various articles I've read. The short of it being that if you were an investor and found someone in CA with a great idea you'd like to put some money behind your highly likely to suggest they establish the business in a more financially friendly state such as Nevada.
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
But back OT, is this the legal reality everywhere or just how it is written there?

Motor Trend or Car and Driver (I don't remember which) had a story in the August issue about red light cameras.

Photo Enforcement Law by State

The red,orange,yellow,green ratings on the link I posted can somewhat be ignored since states with no specific law on the books are rated RED (poor) as well as those states such as Maine where all photo enforcement is banned.

Some of the more driver friendly states:

Arkansas - use of photo radar by county or state government prohibited except at school zones and railroad crossings; officer must be present and citation must be issued at time of offense

Louisiana - state law provides that convictions resulting from camera enforcement shall not be reported for inclusion in driver record; law is silent on other issues

Mississippi - all localities prohibited from using automated enforcement; all current programs prohibited effective 3/20/09

Montana - all localities prohibited from using red light cameras; rail crossings excepted

Nevada - prohibits use of imaging equipment unless it is hand held by an officer, installed in a vehicle or facility of a law enforcement agency; traditional enforcement penalties $1,000 maximum fine and 4 points

New Mexico - no state law specifically authorizing automated enforcement; NMDOT has banned red light cameras and mobile enforcement vans on state and federal roadways; state law requires counties and municipalities using camera enforcement to post a warning sign and a warning beacon

South Carolina - photo enforcement prohibited with narrow exception; citations for violating traffic laws relating to speed or disregarding traffic control devices may only be used when the State declares an emergency and citations must be served in person within one hour of the violation

Utah - statewide only school zones or where limit is 30 mph or less; officer must be present; requires local ordinance

West Virginia - all photo enforcement prohibited
 
$480? (!)

Makes the $75 red light photo camera tickets around this area seem like a bargain.
 
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: Cristobal
You cannot blame businesses and people for leaving this state in crowds.


Is this really happening? Seriously? I live next door in a very business friendly state (second lowest tax burden in the union) NO personal state income tax, one of only 4 states with no corporate income tax and I have yet to see any business relocate here.

When I lived in PA, all I heard about was how the high state taxes were running companies out of the state...yeah right. I say it was the weather.


It's the availability of the talent pool. Can Google come and sustain operations in Indiana despite the tax subsidies that the state government is ready to dish out? No way. We are a small shop and are having a hard time finding talent as they all run where the technological clusters are.

All the state can do is attract Amazon warehouses with low skill jobs.
 
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: Cristobal
You cannot blame businesses and people for leaving this state in crowds.


Is this really happening? Seriously? I live next door in a very business friendly state (second lowest tax burden in the union) NO personal state income tax, one of only 4 states with no corporate income tax and I have yet to see any business relocate here.

When I lived in PA, all I heard about was how the high state taxes were running companies out of the state...yeah right. I say it was the weather.


No its not happening. CA has the the most successful businesses in the US located there. Apple overtook Sony as the #1 consumer electronics company , in the world. And it located in CA, as is Google, Cisco etc

In PA its a load of bull too, our biggest industry lately in natural gas drilling, and they have a 0 percent tax on them. ZERO

They fight even paying 1%, but don't mind poisoning our water wells and bribing all if the recent elected officials via campaign donations.

Its all [censored] designed to trick the middle class into paying even more tax to support the whole country, especially State/local/property/school/county/library/garbage/sales/gas/tobacco/alcohol/phone bill tax/cell bill tax/electric bills tax/heating bills tax/car sales taxes/home sales tax/airplane taxes $70 a pop etc etc are added up, the middle class pays more than 99% of the taxes.

The top 1% like to point out the bottom 95% making $360k or less "only" pay %66.7 of federal income tax, but they ignore all the taxes I listed above, and hide the fact that 65% of US corporations pay 0% federal income tax, and those that do pay anything, like Goldman Sachs 2009 returns on $13 Billion in profit, paid 1/10 of 1% in tax. Boo Hoo.
 
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There was some idiot on TV here whining about taxes and regulations on his restaurant forcing him to close. (Like clean your hands after you use the lavatory?) It couldn't be that, uh, his food was terrible, service slow, menu expensive, location bad?

Some (not all) small business owners are Jerks with deficient personalities who can't work for anyone else... because noone will hire them.
 
Originally Posted By: buickman50401
Originally Posted By: Cristobal
You cannot blame businesses and people for leaving this state in crowds.

CA will do anything to extract money from the pockets of business and citizens.

I don't know how many of you used to listen to Loveline back in the day when Adam Carolla was on or listen to his podcast now but its always entertaining listening to him talk about "Rapebank" (Burbank) and their police department writing "chicken-s tickets" like their crackdown on jay-walking. Jay-walking? Really?

In other news, while CA attempts to wring blood from a stone:

LA Times

Quote:

Brown signs California Dream Act
New law covers private funding; governor signals he may also favor expanding public Cal Grants eligibility.

excerpt:
Following through on a campaign promise, Gov. Jerry Brown signed a law Monday easing access to privately funded financial aid for undocumented college students. He also signaled that he was likely to back a more controversial measure allowing those students to seek state-funded tuition aid in the future.

Assemblyman Gil Cedillo (D-Los Angeles), author of the private financial aid measure, described it as an important but incremental step toward expanding opportunities for deserving students who were brought to the U.S. illegally through no choice of their own. Cedillo is pressing ahead with a more expansive measure that would make certain undocumented students eligible for the state's Cal Grants and other forms of state tuition aid.


In short, if they get their way illegal immigrants can get in-state tuition rates and Cal Grants while an "immigrant" from the state of Washington gets socked with out-of-state tuition rates.

Couple that with Brown's latest attempt to do an end-run around the 1992 US Supreme Court ruling regarding online, telephone, and mail order businesses and sales tax collection by trying to redefine "physical presence" of a retailer to include those who use affiliate marketing programs (Amazon and Overstock.com were the targets of this attempt) and it is indeed no wonder why people and businesses go "Hmmm. Oh look, Nevada! Let's go."


Do you propose to let these kids grow up uneducated and poor? The fact is that these kids are here and will stay here in the foreseeable future. In the mean while, the state has to make sure that they are productive members of the society.

Unless you fix the root cause, you have to use band-aid, and controversial sounding, measures like this.
 
Regarding "anti-business" CA and Amazon sales taxes, Texas (very liberal anti business place huh huh?) tried the same thing with Amazon. Amazon took off like a bat out of heck! Closing one house and canceled plans for another.
So by this logic Texas is anti-business!

http://news.bookweb.org/news/amazon-pulling-out-texas-over-sales-tax


lol Fox"News" won't tell you about that though will they ? Rupert won't let them.
 
a Texas municipality may not use an automated traffic control system to enforce speed they can do redlights.

BUT! the camera companies have altered the timing of the lights and duration of the yellow light to maximize profitability

I can hold a set speed and catch every light on the green on one stretch of road except the camera enforced redlight. It goes yellow early everytime. I sat in restaurant and watched one day. As the large group of cars from the previous intersection approached, it would turn yellow. Now everybody knows that this is a camera enforced intersection so the result is a lot of hard braking cars.

The companies also got caught shortening the duration of the yellow light and creating a seriously dangerous situation. One court dismissed all the unpaid citations when the yellow was found to be .7 seconds long...7/10ths. Not even a full second
 
Originally Posted By: CivicFan

Do you propose to let these kids grow up uneducated and poor? The fact is that these kids are here and will stay here in the foreseeable future. In the mean while, the state has to make sure that they are productive members of the society.

Unless you fix the root cause, you have to use band-aid, and controversial sounding, measures like this.

I propose we work harder to keep them out in the first place and worry about legal residents first.

Where is your worry about the citizens of the country who cannot afford college "growing up uneducated and poor"?

Lets also not pretend that their not getting an education in the first place via the taxpayer funded k-12 public schools.
 
Red-light cameras if used prudently can be very good to reduce traffic accidents and congestion at some heavily travel intersections.

There are several heavy traffic intersections in a nearby town that people turned left 5-6 seconds after light was red and created a jam in the intersection, after Red-light cameras were installed at those intersections no more problem. The yellow light duration seemed to increase about 1 second when they installed the camera, it was 4 seconds and it is about 5 second now.
 
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
Originally Posted By: buickman50401
Originally Posted By: Cristobal
You cannot blame businesses and people for leaving this state in crowds.

CA will do anything to extract money from the pockets of business and citizens.

I don't know how many of you used to listen to Loveline back in the day when Adam Carolla was on or listen to his podcast now but its always entertaining listening to him talk about "Rapebank" (Burbank) and their police department writing "chicken-s tickets" like their crackdown on jay-walking. Jay-walking? Really?

In other news, while CA attempts to wring blood from a stone:




LA Times

Quote:

Brown signs California Dream Act
New law covers private funding; governor signals he may also favor expanding public Cal Grants eligibility.

excerpt:
Following through on a campaign promise, Gov. Jerry Brown signed a law Monday easing access to privately funded financial aid for undocumented college students. He also signaled that he was likely to back a more controversial measure allowing those students to seek state-funded tuition aid in the future.

Assemblyman Gil Cedillo (D-Los Angeles), author of the private financial aid measure, described it as an important but incremental step toward expanding opportunities for deserving students who were brought to the U.S. illegally through no choice of their own. Cedillo is pressing ahead with a more expansive measure that would make certain undocumented students eligible for the state's Cal Grants and other forms of state tuition aid.


In short, if they get their way illegal immigrants can get in-state tuition rates and Cal Grants while an "immigrant" from the state of Washington gets socked with out-of-state tuition rates.

Couple that with Brown's latest attempt to do an end-run around the 1992 US Supreme Court ruling regarding online, telephone, and mail order businesses and sales tax collection by trying to redefine "physical presence" of a retailer to include those who use affiliate marketing programs (Amazon and Overstock.com were the targets of this attempt) and it is indeed no wonder why people and businesses go "Hmmm. Oh look, Nevada! Let's go."


Do you propose to let these kids grow up uneducated and poor? The fact is that these kids are here and will stay here in the foreseeable future. In the mean while, the state has to make sure that they are productive members of the society.

Unless you fix the root cause, you have to use band-aid, and controversial sounding, measures like this.



YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Red-light cameras if used prudently can be very good to reduce traffic accidents and congestion at some heavily travel intersections.

There are several heavy traffic intersections in a nearby town that people turned left 5-6 seconds after light was red and created a jam in the intersection, after Red-light cameras were installed at those intersections no more problem. The yellow light duration seemed to increase about 1 second when they installed the camera, it was 4 seconds and it is about 5 second now.

Which as you said is a prudent example. A problem existed. They put in cameras to stop it and increased the light time to prevent creating more accidents from people stopping short over worries about the camera.

I've got zero problems with cameras when implemented properly and for a specific identified problem.
 
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