Hey all, recently purchased some Motorex Crosspower 4t 10w-50 for the transmission in my 2020 KTM 250XC Tpi. Says on the Motorex website that it is JASO MA2 certified which is required for my model. I made the order online along with some various upgrade parts for the bike and my order arrived last week. While draining the oil from my bike I grabbed the bottle and was looking over the label and noticed that it is only labeled JASO MA. Has anyone come across anything like this before? Website says JASO MA2, bottle is listed MA. Should I still put it in? I feel like Motorex just cost me $18 for the wrong product. JASO MA2 is a higher friction coefficient as far as I know so will I experience clutch problems with this? Possible slipping? Was just planning on running the Motorex til 10hrs then looking for something cheaper like AMSOIL dirt 80wt or something. I should have just thrown in the thinner 10w-40 Mobil 4t I already have in the garage for my street bike which at least has an MA/MA2 rating. Any input much appreciated!
Motorex Crosspower 4t JASO rating?
- Thread starter FULLBLOWN
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I would still use it since you only plan on running it for 10 hours and then changing it out.
Back when I was obsessing over JASO MA ratings, the only difference I saw (based on oil analysis) between JASO MA and JASO MA2 was reduced Zinc and Phosphate levels in MA2 formulations. (I know the JASO specs don't have anything to do with those additives but at least on paper that was the only discernible difference)
Back when I was obsessing over JASO MA ratings, the only difference I saw (based on oil analysis) between JASO MA and JASO MA2 was reduced Zinc and Phosphate levels in MA2 formulations. (I know the JASO specs don't have anything to do with those additives but at least on paper that was the only discernible difference)
Originally Posted by FULLBLOWN
Do you think that the differences in composition will negatively effect the clutch plate material in any way? I just don't want to ruin the friction discs in my brand new bike, I know the rest of the transmission is irrelevant.
I'd say you'll be OK. It was rated just "MA" because it didn't meet all the requirements of only MA1 or MA2 friction test specs.
This website has some good info on all the differences between MA, MA1 and MA2.
http://www.mototribology.com/articles/jaso-explained-part-1/
Do you think that the differences in composition will negatively effect the clutch plate material in any way? I just don't want to ruin the friction discs in my brand new bike, I know the rest of the transmission is irrelevant.
I'd say you'll be OK. It was rated just "MA" because it didn't meet all the requirements of only MA1 or MA2 friction test specs.
This website has some good info on all the differences between MA, MA1 and MA2.
http://www.mototribology.com/articles/jaso-explained-part-1/
Originally Posted by FULLBLOWN
Do you think that the differences in composition will negatively effect the clutch plate material in any way? I just don't want to ruin the friction discs in my brand new bike, I know the rest of the transmission is irrelevant.
Friction discs will be fine as a 10W50 is not energy conserving and would not have friction modifiers.
Do you think that the differences in composition will negatively effect the clutch plate material in any way? I just don't want to ruin the friction discs in my brand new bike, I know the rest of the transmission is irrelevant.
Friction discs will be fine as a 10W50 is not energy conserving and would not have friction modifiers.
Originally Posted by FULLBLOWN
Do you think I received old stock or something? Like they have updated the product? There are so many variables in these classifications it drives me crazy lol.
The only difference in the JASO classifications are the friction test ranges between MA1 and MA2. The MA1 range + the MA2 range covers the whole MA range. I really don't think a wet clutch is going to have issues if any of the JASO MA/MA1/MA2 specified oil is used.
Some guys claim any oil even with no JASO spec can be used with a wet clutch ... but that's a whole separate discussion, lol.
Do you think I received old stock or something? Like they have updated the product? There are so many variables in these classifications it drives me crazy lol.
The only difference in the JASO classifications are the friction test ranges between MA1 and MA2. The MA1 range + the MA2 range covers the whole MA range. I really don't think a wet clutch is going to have issues if any of the JASO MA/MA1/MA2 specified oil is used.
Some guys claim any oil even with no JASO spec can be used with a wet clutch ... but that's a whole separate discussion, lol.
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by FULLBLOWN
Do you think I received old stock or something? Like they have updated the product? There are so many variables in these classifications it drives me crazy lol.
The only difference in the JASO classifications are the friction test ranges between MA1 and MA2. The MA1 range + the MA2 range covers the whole MA range. I really don't think a wet clutch is going to have issues if any of the JASO MA/MA1/MA2 specified oil is used.
Some guys claim any oil even with no JASO spec can be used with a wet clutch ... but that's a whole separate discussion, lol.
Shell Rotella oils have basically been JASO "self certified" since day one and riders collectively have put on a million+ miles on those oils in bikes with wet clutches. The Goldwing crowd loves Rotella and those guys ride thousands of miles since they're all retired lol.
And there's a few people here who have used Mobil1 15W50 which isn't even advertised as a MC oil lol
Originally Posted by FULLBLOWN
Do you think I received old stock or something? Like they have updated the product? There are so many variables in these classifications it drives me crazy lol.
The only difference in the JASO classifications are the friction test ranges between MA1 and MA2. The MA1 range + the MA2 range covers the whole MA range. I really don't think a wet clutch is going to have issues if any of the JASO MA/MA1/MA2 specified oil is used.
Some guys claim any oil even with no JASO spec can be used with a wet clutch ... but that's a whole separate discussion, lol.
Shell Rotella oils have basically been JASO "self certified" since day one and riders collectively have put on a million+ miles on those oils in bikes with wet clutches. The Goldwing crowd loves Rotella and those guys ride thousands of miles since they're all retired lol.
And there's a few people here who have used Mobil1 15W50 which isn't even advertised as a MC oil lol
As far as I know it has been widely shown on BITOG, anything above an Xw30 weight is non energy conserving and is suitable for a wet clutch. 5w40, 10w40, 15w40, etc.
Since you are using this in a transmission and changing it out so often, find one that you like and go ride.
The oil you are choosing should be a fine one.
Since you are using this in a transmission and changing it out so often, find one that you like and go ride.
The oil you are choosing should be a fine one.
If I read this table correctly, which was from a link earlier in this post, for the oil to be considered as a specific category it has to meet all of the specifications of that category. For it to cross over into another category therefore it would have to meet all the specifications of the other category as well.
Looking at the table, MA oils that don't also carry the MA1 rating, are by default 1.60 and higher on the static friction index for example.
![[Linked Image]](https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/attachments/usergals/2020/04/full-57083-43855-jaso_t903_2016.png "[Linked Image]")
My eyes get crossed reading it, but I think it is accurate if you take a look at the table.
Looking at the table, MA oils that don't also carry the MA1 rating, are by default 1.60 and higher on the static friction index for example.
My eyes get crossed reading it, but I think it is accurate if you take a look at the table.
Originally Posted by Bonz
If I read this table correctly, which was from a link earlier in this post, for the oil to be considered as a specific category it has to meet all of the specifications of that category. For it to cross over into another category therefore it would have to meet all the specifications of the other category as well.
Looking at the table, MA oils that don't also carry the MA1 rating, are by default 1.60 and higher on the static friction index for example.
My eyes get crossed reading it, but I think it is accurate if you take a look at the table.
The rating for the static friction spec changes from MA1 to MA2 when the static friction is 1.60 to
If an oil meets only one of the three friction specs for MA1, and the 3rd spec falls into the MA2 category, then it has to be rated simply MA. Same is true for any of the 3 friction specs in the MA1 and MA2 categories.
Oil is rated JASO MA1 when all 3 of the MA1 friction specs are met.
Oil is rated JASO MA2 when all 3 of the MA2 friction specs are met.
Oil is rated JASO MA when neither MA1 or MA2 can meet all three of their specs, but still falls within the larger range of the MA specs.
The MA1 range plus the MA2 range equals the total range of the MA spec. JASO just split the MA spec range into two separate ranges, MA1 and MA2.
If I read this table correctly, which was from a link earlier in this post, for the oil to be considered as a specific category it has to meet all of the specifications of that category. For it to cross over into another category therefore it would have to meet all the specifications of the other category as well.
Looking at the table, MA oils that don't also carry the MA1 rating, are by default 1.60 and higher on the static friction index for example.
My eyes get crossed reading it, but I think it is accurate if you take a look at the table.
The rating for the static friction spec changes from MA1 to MA2 when the static friction is 1.60 to
If an oil meets only one of the three friction specs for MA1, and the 3rd spec falls into the MA2 category, then it has to be rated simply MA. Same is true for any of the 3 friction specs in the MA1 and MA2 categories.
Oil is rated JASO MA1 when all 3 of the MA1 friction specs are met.
Oil is rated JASO MA2 when all 3 of the MA2 friction specs are met.
Oil is rated JASO MA when neither MA1 or MA2 can meet all three of their specs, but still falls within the larger range of the MA specs.
The MA1 range plus the MA2 range equals the total range of the MA spec. JASO just split the MA spec range into two separate ranges, MA1 and MA2.
With that good information being said what is an MA1 example? What oil meets that spec and is advertised as such?
I haven't seen that in any oil I've used and I've been an oil [censored] my whole life trying something new every oil change just because I can and using Blackstone analysis for the past forty thousand miles.
I haven't seen that in any oil I've used and I've been an oil [censored] my whole life trying something new every oil change just because I can and using Blackstone analysis for the past forty thousand miles.
Originally Posted by Reddy45
Friction discs will be fine as a 10W50 is not energy conserving and would not have friction modifiers.
Energy Conserving is not additive... its an API test that this "oil
might result is an overall saving of fuel in the vehicle fleet as a
whole"... there is nothing in the oil to defeat a wet clutch...
My RC45 has over 57K miles and those are miles not in moderation
either... its a homologated race bike with a first gear good for
90mph... since 98 I've been running Mobil 1 Energy Conserving oil 365
days a year...
Friction discs will be fine as a 10W50 is not energy conserving and would not have friction modifiers.
Energy Conserving is not additive... its an API test that this "oil
might result is an overall saving of fuel in the vehicle fleet as a
whole"... there is nothing in the oil to defeat a wet clutch...
My RC45 has over 57K miles and those are miles not in moderation
either... its a homologated race bike with a first gear good for
90mph... since 98 I've been running Mobil 1 Energy Conserving oil 365
days a year...
Originally Posted by FULLBLOWN
JASO MA2 is a higher friction coefficient as far as I know so will I experience clutch problems with this? Possible slipping?
No...
The holy trinity of science is 1)Reason 2)Observation 3)Experience...
employing those tools we observe that the primary cause clutch slip
are high mileage... mileage is the constant among all of the clutches
that begin to slip... oil choice whether JASO approved or not is not a
constant... High mileage is the constant where all clutches begin to
loose grip due to normal glazing and contaminates that build up over use...
![[Linked Image from vfrdiscussion.com]](http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/uploads/1113861108/gallery_3131_51_129667.jpg "[Linked Image from vfrdiscussion.com]")
JASO MA2 is a higher friction coefficient as far as I know so will I experience clutch problems with this? Possible slipping?
No...
The holy trinity of science is 1)Reason 2)Observation 3)Experience...
employing those tools we observe that the primary cause clutch slip
are high mileage... mileage is the constant among all of the clutches
that begin to slip... oil choice whether JASO approved or not is not a
constant... High mileage is the constant where all clutches begin to
loose grip due to normal glazing and contaminates that build up over use...
Last edited:
Not "the holy trinity of science" cut & paste again ...
Originally Posted by FULLBLOWN
JASO MA2 is a higher friction coefficient as far as I know so will I experience clutch problems with this? Possible slipping?
Higher friction level means less slipping.
Originally Posted by FULLBLOWN
JASO MA2 is a higher friction coefficient as far as I know so will I experience clutch problems with this? Possible slipping?
Higher friction level means less slipping.
Originally Posted by Bonz
With that good information being said what is an MA1 example? What oil meets that spec and is advertised as such?
Beats me ... but I've seen lots of MA2 and MA. So I guess the chances of all 3 friction specs to fall into the MA1 range is rare.
My 2016 Yamaha XSR900 owner's manual call out to use JASO MA, and it's got a catalytic converter on it. So apparently Yamaha isn't too concerned about using specifically MA1 or MA2 specified oil.
My 2000 Busa manual doesn't call out any JASO oil spec, but the 2008 Busa calls out JASO MA.
With that good information being said what is an MA1 example? What oil meets that spec and is advertised as such?
Beats me ... but I've seen lots of MA2 and MA. So I guess the chances of all 3 friction specs to fall into the MA1 range is rare.
My 2016 Yamaha XSR900 owner's manual call out to use JASO MA, and it's got a catalytic converter on it. So apparently Yamaha isn't too concerned about using specifically MA1 or MA2 specified oil.
My 2000 Busa manual doesn't call out any JASO oil spec, but the 2008 Busa calls out JASO MA.
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