Motor oil advice , ACEA C2/C3 confusion.

[jonni]

Good day. This is my first post on this forum

One of my cars is Toyota Corolla 16" with the 1ND-TV turbocharged diesel engine.





The car manual is quite unclear regarding engine oil , it states only C2 engine oil for the catalytic converter... so what happens if i use C3 engine oil in the same mid saps tier ?
Is 5W30 suggested also ?
To be cost efficient i have two options.
I can buy mobil super3000 5w30 C3 20L in costco. (not recommended by manual i guess)
And Mannol legend 0w30 both C2 and C3 (how thats possible?)
I have used mannol for many years on my 90k milage petrol suzuki swift. I it burns almost no oil today @ 4.5k miles interval. severe driving conditions.
short trips most of the engine´s life. And had faulty OPEN thermostat so the engine never got warmed up properly.

Temperature in reykjavik capital is often around 0-5°C(~36.5°F) with few days in -16°C(3.2°F) and topping in 25°C(77°F)

best regards

 

[kschachn]

ACEA C3 is fine, it has a somewhat higher HT/HS requirement than ACEA C2.

ACEA C2 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil with Mid SAPS-Level, intended for use as catalyst compatible Oil at extended Drain Intervals in Vehicles with all Types of modern Aftertreatment Systems and High Performance Passenger Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & DI Diesel Engines that are designed to be capable of using Low Viscosity Oils with a minimum HTHS Viscosity of 2.9 mPa*s.

ACEA C3 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil with Mid SAPS-Level, intended for use as catalyst compatible Oil at extended Drain Intervals in Vehicles with all Types of modern Aftertreatment Systems and High Performance Passenger Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & DI Diesel Engines that are designed to be capable of using Oils with a minimum HTHS Viscosity of 3.5 mPa*s.

At your temperatures an oil with a 5W winter rating is also fine. Good down to about -30C or so.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Good day. This is my first post on this forum

One of my cars is Toyota Corolla 16" with the 1ND-TV turbocharged diesel engine.


The car manual is quite unclear regarding engine oil , it states only C2 engine oil for the catalytic converter... so what happens if i use C3 engine oil in the same mid saps tier ?
Is 5W30 suggested also ?
To be cost efficient i have two options.
I can buy mobil super3000 5w30 C3 20L in costco. (not recommended by manual i guess)
And Mannol legend 0w30 both C2 and C3 (how thats possible?)
I have used mannol for many years on my 90k milage petrol suzuki swift. I it burns almost no oil today @ 4.5k miles interval. severe driving conditions.
short trips most of the engine´s life. And had faulty OPEN thermostat so the engine never got warmed up properly.

Temperature in reykjavik capital is often around 0-5°C(~36.5°F) with few days in -16°C(3.2°F) and topping in 25°C(77°F)

best regards

C2 is a fuel efficient version of C3 due to the slightly lower min HTHS. Both meet the same emissions system compliance.

C2 has no max HTHS because is just requires a pass of the FE test so it's possible to have a C3 oil which also passes the FE test of C2.

Mobil 1 ESP 5w30 as an example.

 

[jonni]

Thank you guys for the replies.

Is there any noticeable difference in wear if you swap 5w30 for 0w30 driving in those conditions and oil change every 6.5k miles ?
The car is mabey driving 10km back and forth every day. Possibly longer trips every other weekend.

Also how is C2 AND C3 engine oil possible with different HTHS ratings ?

After reading some posts here, i´m now thinking Mannol is unholy engine oil and should be avoided ?
Using it on my high milage suzuki for severe driving conditions, burns almost no oil after 7.5k mile change interval.. have been using mannol for years now.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Thank you guys for the replies.

Is there any noticeable difference in wear if you swap 5w30 for 0w30 driving in those conditions and oil change every 6.5k miles ?
The car is mabey driving 10km back and forth every day. Possibly longer trips every other weekend.

Also how is C2 AND C3 engine oil possible with different HTHS ratings ?

After reading some posts here, i´m now thinking Mannol is unholy engine oil and should be avoided ?
Using it on my high milage suzuki for severe driving conditions, burns almost no oil after 7.5k mile change interval.. have been using mannol for years now.

Basically no difference.

BITOG is a US-based site with a handful of posters from outside the US/Canada so products like Mannol don't get brought up all that often. @edyvw and @ChristianReske may have some experience with the product.

How a C3 oil can meet C2? Use of certain types of friction modifiers is my guess.

 

[kschachn]

Thank you guys for the replies.

Is there any noticeable difference in wear if you swap 5w30 for 0w30 driving in those conditions and oil change every 6.5k miles ?
The car is mabey driving 10km back and forth every day. Possibly longer trips every other weekend.

Also how is C2 AND C3 engine oil possible with different HTHS ratings ?

After reading some posts here, i´m now thinking Mannol is unholy engine oil and should be avoided ?
Using it on my high milage suzuki for severe driving conditions, burns almost no oil after 7.5k mile change interval.. have been using mannol for years now.

No.

The C2-C3 difference was explained above.

 

[kschachn]

Mannol does seem to make up a lot in regards to approvals. Or at least try and obfuscate things.

 

[jonni]

No.

The C2-C3 difference was explained above.

Yes i understand C2 and C3 are both midsaps but differ in HTHS. Therefor cannot be the "same" motor oil.
But what about this sorcery below ? C2/C3 specd. oils

TotalEnergies Quartz Ineo MDC 5W-30

lubricants.catalog.totalenergies.com

MANNOL Legend Extra 0W-30

www.mannol.de

Valvoline All Climate C2/C3 | Leader in lubricants and additives

Bestel de Valvoline All Climate C2/C3 bij MisterOil - Order before 14h, we will send your parcel the same working day!

www.misteroil.eu

 

[kschachn]

As noted above the difference lies in the minimum HT/HS.

Yes i understand C2 and C3 are both midsaps but differ in HTHS. Therefor cannot be the "same" motor oil.
But what about this sorcery below ? C2/C3 specd. oils

Yes it can. ACEA C2 HT/HS requirement is a minimum of 2.9, not a maximum. SAPS requirements are the same as is Noack.

I'd still avoid Mannol due to their PDS shenanigans.

 

[DC11]

Thank you guys for the replies.

Is there any noticeable difference in wear if you swap 5w30 for 0w30 driving in those conditions and oil change every 6.5k miles ?
The car is mabey driving 10km back and forth every day. Possibly longer trips every other weekend.

Also how is C2 AND C3 engine oil possible with different HTHS ratings ?

After reading some posts here, i´m now thinking Mannol is unholy engine oil and should be avoided ?
Using it on my high milage suzuki for severe driving conditions, burns almost no oil after 7.5k mile change interval.. have been using mannol for years now.

Mobil 1 ESP 5w30 also has ACEA C2 and ACEA C3 specification, as it's HTHS is 3.5. Anything greater than that would be C3 only, and lower C2.
Look for something like Total Ineo ECS or Total Ineo First as they have "statisfies TOYOTA technical requirements" in pds

 

[kschachn]

Mobil 1 ESP 5w30 also has ACEA C2 and ACEA C3 specification, as it's HTHS is 3.5. Anything greater than that would be C3 only, and lower C2.
Look for something like Total Ineo ECS or Total Ineo First as they have "statisfies TOYOTA technical requirements" in pds

Don't forget the "age-resistance technology" and the "hyperactive molecules".

Age-Resistance technology offers unbeatable engine protection. It's unique combination
of hyperactive molecules creates a strong thick oil film on all concerned engine parts.
Engines are absolutely protected against a variety of challenges, from wear to oil oxidation
even at extreme temperatures.

 

[DC11]

Marketing mumbo-jumbo just as Castrol's Dualock etc. Clings, locks, protects..

 

[dubber09]

Imho, if you can find oil meeting C2/C3, VW 504/507 and MB 229.52 - you got yourself more than excellent oil.
504/507 oils come only in 0w-30 or 5w-30 and have to pass wear test after 650 engine hours. Max NOACK is 11%.
C2 is basically fuel efficient variant of C3. Both are safe for catalyst and DPF.
MB 229.52 goes even above C2 and C3 requirements while adding LSPI test with tougher than SP and Dexos requirements.

 

[jonni]

Topped up the toyota corolla D4-D with unholy Mannol legend 0w-30 C2/C3. I´ts about 1/2 price of total qartz.

I really have no solid reason for paying double the money for same spec oil.

 

[CleanSump]

The Mannol Legend is a C2 oil that satisfies the OM. C3 is a Mannol "recommendation" and totally irrelevant to whether or not it's an appropriate choice. You require C2 by the book, and it is C2 of appropriate viscosity.

 

[jonni]

The Mannol Legend is a C2 oil that satisfies the OM. C3 is a Mannol "recommendation" and totally irrelevant to whether or not it's an appropriate choice. You require C2 by the book, and it is C2 of appropriate viscosity.

For the heck of it i asked the local toyota dealership about this, and was informed they used 5w30/c3 for this model if serviced by them.

Anyways ,my professional field is electronics engineering but all this acea thing and voodoo marketing surrounding engine oil is way above my level.

 

[kschachn]

Anyways ,my professional field is electronics engineering but all this acea thing and voodoo marketing surrounding engine oil is way above my level.

Marketing can be voodoo but ACEA Sequences and approvals are not. Just make sure the oil you’re using isn’t obfuscating the facts. Mannol has been known to be a bit loose with this.

 

[edyvw]

Check Aral. Aral makes good stuff.

 

[userfriendly]

FYI, the Icelandic capital of Canada is Gimli, Manitoba.

 

[jonni]

FYI, the Icelandic capital of Canada is Gimli, Manitoba.

Ha,ha! I wish but unfortunately it´s Brussels (Belgium). we´re getting sucked into the eurotrash union. (EU)