Motor Milk - new boutique?

[OilStainedNapkin]

This is def the new valvoline restore and protect

 

[svenson]

Yes, this is why Redline white bottle has such a high ZDDP dose rate. The better approach is to use the ester/AN combo like the original Mobil Tri-Syn, and now HPL products, which keep the ester dose at a level low enough that it's not meaningfully competing for surface space with the AW additives.

do all mobil 1 products use that? i thought they gave up esters and use only AN ,except 0-30 of course.

Time will tell, why not give them (Motor Milk ) a chance instead of just tearing them down, maybe it will be a good oil in its given application. Just because it is not HPL or Mobil 1 ESP does not mean it is bad, just sounds like a new company starting out witih a possiblly exciting product line. Think outside of the box!!!!

so give it try and let use know

 

[OVERKILL]

do all mobil 1 products use that? i thought they gave up esters and use only AN ,except 0-30 of course.

Tri-Syn was from many decades ago, it was PAO/AN/Ester. From what I recall, it was pioneered by Dr. Rudnick.

 

[Motor Milk]

The problem I foresee is that there's only so much surface activity available. The more ester you push, the more it defeats your elevated ZDDP levels. There's a fixed budget of surface activity and polarity that is available, above which adding more of any particular polar additive is effectively pushing on a rope. It is zero-sum and simply enriching the formula on increases the harmful side effects rather the increasing the desired primary effect.

The question is not how much phosphorus you can put in the oil via ZDDP. The question is how much of that is translated into protective tribofilm formation, preservation, and restoration. It's like when I was watching the show with Walter White a couple times-- his problem wasn't making money, it laundering it to make it accessible.

Thus, calcium, ester, and ZDDP are all competing with each other for access to the surface. This is why true racing oils have very low detergency and dispersancy-- you want the antiwear and EP performance to take precedent.

Dear Hohn, thank you for your insightful comment. Calcium, esters, and ZDDP esters do not necessarily compete with one another, as each contributes differently to overall oil stability and performance. In our formulations, we also aim to keep calcium levels as low as possible while placing greater emphasis on ester content and ZDDP in a track-oriented approach (we, of course, need to retain road-going compliance for those driving on the road). The trade-offs you mention are exactly the kind of considerations that require thorough investigation and continuous development, and they are very much what keep us busy. You are absolutely right. Kind regards, Motor Milk™

 

[Motor Milk]

Motor Milk guys, I know this is shallow but the name is just a little gross to me. I know its too late, but somebody needed to rethink that name. The easter egg purple doesn't help.

To put it into context - the name is akin to Axle Pudding. It installs no confidence and at the same time conjures images of putrid slime in a mechanical device.

BTW - the Noack value of the 5w-40 is pretty impressive. But the name, ugh.

Hey Crashz, judging from your profile, you seem like an absolute veteran, so naturally we’d love to engage. After seeing so many comments about our name, we did start to question it a little, perhaps unnecessarily. In case anyone does wonder, the name is partly inspired by the many grazing cows in the Netherlands and Eifel (DE) region where we operate. And your point about it sounding “nutritious” is not entirely off, as our oils are relatively rich in minerals. At a time when many oils, at least here in Germany, seem to be losing additive content, not to mention facing increasing compromises in base oil quality due to geopolitical pressures, we felt it was both fitting and amusing to take the opposite approach with a formulation that is, in a sense, almost “nutritious.” We hope you enjoy a bit of the story behind the name.

Thank you as well for your comment regarding the NOACK specification. In truth, this is not a major priority for us or for many of our customers, who tend to change their oil quite regularly. Lake Speed Jr. will also be publishing analyses on foam control soon, which you may also find interesting. We are still continuing to refine this new formula you are commenting on, so feedback from the community will absolutely be taken into account to the best of our ability. Thanks again, and speak soon. Kind regards, Motor Milk™

 

[Hohn]

Calcium, esters, and ZDDP esters do not necessarily compete with one another.

You sure about that?

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11249-025-01968-3

https://www.mdpi.com/2075-4442/8/11/98

https://www.stle.org/images/pdf/STL...ion for Metal Surfaces_tlt article_Sept13.pdf

https://www.researchgate.net/public...icity_of_Calcium_Sulfonate_on_ZnDTP_and_MoDTC

 

[Motor Milk]

You sure about that?

You are absolutely right.

Absolutely, we are sure! And agree! The studies mentioned do not always address the exact interactions we are referring to, but these are precisely the kinds of questions that always merit thorough investigation. For optimal ZDDP performance, we also pay close attention to detergent type, composition, and concentration. In this way, we are able to offer high-ester, high-ZDDP oils for our track- and tuning-oriented clientele while keeping other mineral components, such as calcium, relatively low, despite what our name might suggest . Let us know if you have any feedback on the spec sheet above. This is something new we are testing, and we would love to hear your feedback before we launch this new product. Kind regards, Motor Milk™

 

[travis8352]

Absolutely, we are sure! And agree! The studies mentioned do not always address the exact interactions we are referring to, but these are precisely the kinds of questions that always merit thorough investigation. For optimal ZDDP performance, we also pay close attention to detergent type, composition, and concentration. In this way, we are able to offer high-ester, high-ZDDP oils for our track- and tuning-oriented clientele while keeping other mineral components, such as calcium, relatively low, despite what our name might suggest . Let us know if you have any feedback on the spec sheet above. This is something new we are testing, and we would love to hear your feedback before we launch this new product. Kind regards, Motor Milk™

When you say high ester, how high are we talking? Some say high ester but its really only 2% while others like redline contain up to 40% in certain grades per dave granquist

 

[Motor Milk]

When you say high ester, how high are we talking? Some say high ester but its really only 2% while others like redline contain up to 40% in certain grades per dave granquist

Hi Travis, thank you. This gets to the heart of why Motor Milk exists.

You are right, many companies rely on ester-related language to suggest highly advanced formulation, while the actual ester content often remains modest. From the beginning, we wanted to take a different path. Our formulations are already well beyond 20% esters, with our newest products going further still, and with each batch, we continue looking for ways to improve. Esters are exceptionally expensive, but we prefer to invest in the formulation rather than cut costs at the expense of quality.

Regarding the 40% ester content suggestion, our view is that this is very difficult to achieve in practice under current market conditions. Based on our experience sourcing esters globally across Europe, Asia, and the Americas, we have not found a supply route that would make this feasible without driving pricing well beyond $40 per quart. For that reason, we remain sceptical of such levels in the current market. That said, we have a great deal of respect for Red Line and their products. We have taken inspiration from their philosophy, and like us, they have always shown a strong appreciation for ZDDP-based formulation. Our perspective simply comes from being very active in the ester market ourselves and making continuous purchases.

With our latest batch, we had hoped that increased scale in purchasing and production would allow us to reduce pricing. Instead, costs moved higher, partly because of geopolitical tensions, but also because we found another way to increase both the ester and ZDDP base while remaining within reasonable limits and preserving stability.

So yes, this is an excellent point and comment, thank you! Team Motor Milk™

 

[travis8352]

Hi Travis, thank you. This gets to the heart of why Motor Milk exists.

You are right, many companies rely on ester-related language to suggest highly advanced formulation, while the actual ester content often remains modest. From the beginning, we wanted to take a different path. Our formulations are already well beyond 20% esters, with our newest products going further still, and with each batch, we continue looking for ways to improve. Esters are exceptionally expensive, but we prefer to invest in the formulation rather than cut costs at the expense of quality.

Regarding the 40% ester content suggestion, our view is that this is very difficult to achieve in practice under current market conditions. Based on our experience sourcing esters globally across Europe, Asia, and the Americas, we have not found a supply route that would make this feasible without driving pricing well beyond $40 per quart. For that reason, we remain sceptical of such levels in the current market. That said, we have a great deal of respect for Red Line and their products. We have taken inspiration from their philosophy, and like us, they have always shown a strong appreciation for ZDDP-based formulation. Our perspective simply comes from being very active in the ester market ourselves and making continuous purchases.

With our latest batch, we had hoped that increased scale in purchasing and production would allow us to reduce pricing. Instead, costs moved higher, partly because of geopolitical tensions, but also because we found another way to increase both the ester and ZDDP base while remaining within reasonable limits and preserving stability.

So yes, this is an excellent point and comment, thank you! Team Motor Milk™

Thank you for the response! I appreciate your honesty here!

What internal testing do you guys do to validate the changes made to each formula? Are there specs on the new formula yet? Thank you in advance!

 

[facility1]

Other than a base oil (s) formulation, the juggling of the compatibility of the additive pacs and or combination of various components can be a tricky route to take to appease the licenses, specifications and approvals & the consistent end results needed.