dash cam saves careers

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dnewton3

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Another thing to keep in mind regarding the recording of events is the timeliness of complaints versus the data storage. Consider a few situations very different from each other. Event 1 Robbery call goes out over the air. Officer sees the suspect car and pursues; chase ensues. Eventually comes to a stop and there is a brief shooting causing the death of the suspect. Because this was recorded on a dash-cam, and the event is obviously high-profile, the data is immediately gathered and logged electronically as evidence. Event 2 A typical traffic stop for speeding violation. Two occupants; both females are attractive and dressed for a night out; a bit provocative in their clothing. Male officer has the typical discussion of short duration, takes the license to run it on the computer in his car, then returns to issue a verbal warning for the violation and the event ends. He was professional and polite; they were courteous and cooperative. Because he suspects nothing was "wrong" at the time of the stop, and because he did them a favor by not issuing a citation, he does not "store" the stop data and it is deleted at the end of his shift. But several days later, she calls to complain about him "coming on" to her, and her friend in the car is backing her side of the story. Had he known, he could have saved that recording as his proof of professional behavior, but because it's gone, people will think he erased it to dispose of the evidence. Obviously in event 1, there is a very easily understood mantra to save all evidence including the video which would exonerate the officer. But in event 2, there was no rational reason to think he needed to corroborate his story with the camera recording. So the question becomes one of integrity versus cost of data storage. As much as we all think data is cheap, every single event involving an officer with the public would need to be stored for some duration of "statute of limitations". To save all that data for a week, multiplied by all the officers on a department, adds up to a LOT of data storage if you have to save everything. I am NOT a fan of over-regulation in life; too many laws already. But if we want to protect BOTH the public and the officers, using the truth via video evidence, then there should be a timely duration set to file one's complaint, and after that it should be considered void. That way the department can plan and pay for the data storage systems, and make all events "logged" and they would drop out by expiration, unless tagged to be "saved" indefinitely. But that would drive up costs, and taxes, and you know how well that is received ... If you want a three day complaint period, then set the data storage for 4 days. If you want a week complaint period, set the data for destruction at 8 days. Etc. My point is that if we don't get a timely complaint, we don't think much of a non-critical event. Data gets discarded, if it exists at all. For those of us who don't have dash-cams and body cameras, it's our word against theirs. And the older the event is, it's harder for us to be able to recall/document something we do dozens of times a day, several days in a row, a week or two later. What might be fresh in the complainant's mind is long gone in ours. In this story-line, I honestly don't know what made the officers save the dash-cam recording. They handled it well, and she was certainly not offensive at the scene. They had no idea from that interaction that she would turn on them and write such a biased and inaccurate editorial. And because she is a prominent person of color, she would have received a lot of credibility, had it not been for the video they kept. I personally would not have believed such an innocuous conversation needed to be kept, but it's a good thing they did! P.S. - I have had people call and complain about my interaction with them occasionally. It's not frequent, but it happens to nearly every cop at least once a year. You just cannot please some people. I've had circumstances very similar to event 2 happen to me. I've had young women with low plunging necklines take their license from between their bra and breast, because that is where they stick it prior to a night out on the town. Heck, my wife has done that; license on one side and cash/card on the other. Let's not for a second pretend this is not common for some women. And cops are taught to keep our eyes on the person's hands; that is what will kill us. Hands handle weapons, etc. So when they reach for their license in their shirt, where do you think we're looking? My eyes follow their hands right into the cleavage. I want to be clear; I don't "leer". (I have a beautiful wife and family at home and I get all I can handle from my marriage; I don't need extra-curricular activity to make me happy. But the only way I get to go home is to stay safe out on the road.) I watch people's hands way more than I look at their eyes or anything else. Hands kill! You don't watch the dog's tail when it's his big teeth that bite. But if the dog has his tail in his mouth, you cannot help but to look at the other end. I have had women complain about their perception of what I am doing in these circumstances occasionally. Don't want me looking at your chest? Don't wear a plunging shirt and hide stuff in there. The alternative? I become careless and not diligent, and I might die from my lackadaisical attitude. Now my wife becomes a widow and my children fatherless. No thanks. I realize some of this might seem funny and "sex" related, but I assure you it's not. And it would not be funny to you if you were at risk of losing your job, being publicly humiliated, and experiencing stress levels that most folks will never see in their lifetime. I truly wish we had body cameras, and a data storage system that was at least a week in capacity.
 
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Being a cop is more dangerous than sitting behind a desk. There is a much better chance you won't come home than an accountant. Being on the edge of a hair trigger won't really change those odds that much. Treating people like combatants won't change the odds that much. But that's what we are moving towards. That has to change with a different selection process. If you are too nervous to be a cop then don't be a cop. I wouldn't do it.
 
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Thank for posting this. I had a conversation just the other day with a black woman friend of mine. I told her blacks should not assume cops stop them just for "being black". She claimed cops are all racists. I know she didn't really believe that. Its some kind of psychological response to the disproportionately higher rates of incarceration of blacks in the U.S. She seemed to want to justify the high black jail population by saying "cops are out to get us". A few cases, yes, mostly not of course. I just told her whites get stopped all the time.
 
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Originally Posted By: JHZR2
The interesting thing with policing is that there are different standards. Hold a pba card? You may well not be cited even for a serious movin violation. Hold a "gold" (close family) card, it may be even less of a challenge. Policing does involve discretion p, even if some of it is lopsided and undeserved...
And you're just fine with it? Do you see any ethical problem? So you want police to be the judge too. You want cops to legislate from the crown Vic? Cops talk out of both sides of their mouthes. I'm going to kill someone because I'm driving 80, a very serious offense. But the wife of a cop holding one of those cards somehow doesn't present a danger to the public.
 
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Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Body camera or dash cam are good tools to show the action of Police officer and/or the other party. In this case the PO is totally justify with his action. A little off topic: A Florida man killed by a plain cloth PO at 3 AM while waiting for a tow truck, without any video it is now he said she said situation. Whom do you trust ? The plain cloth PO account ? The victim is death so he couldn't say a thing.
I've been broken down on the side of the road and a police officer stopped to check out the situation. I wasn't summarily executed for no apparent reason. Reasonable people, acting reasonably, NEVER have problems with cops, don't get shot, and don't get killed. Fascinating concept that is too hard to grasp by many apparently. Cops don't just shoot people. They shoot people that are aggressive, have weapons, or make attacking or lunging actions.
 
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Originally Posted By: lubricatosaurus
Thank for posting this. I had a conversation just the other day with a black woman friend of mine. I told her blacks should not assume cops stop them just for "being black". She claimed cops are all racists. I know she didn't really believe that. Its some kind of psychological response to the disproportionately higher rates of incarceration of blacks in the U.S. She seemed to want to justify the high black jail population by saying "cops are out to get us". A few cases, yes, mostly not of course. I just told her whites get stopped all the time.
A black woman friend? Do you spend a lot of time riding in the car with her? How much time do you spend with her? What you really mean is a black woman you know of? Right? Hanging out with my black friends really opened my eyes. But you have to really spend some time with them to see it. Hang out at their house, spend some time riding around as a passenger in their car. Etc.
 
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Originally Posted By: turtlevette
A black woman friend? Do you spend a lot of time riding in the car with her? How much time do you spend with her? What you really mean is a black woman you know of? Right? Hanging out with my black friends really opened my eyes. But you have to really spend some time with them to see it. Hang out at their house, spend some time riding around as a passenger in their car. Etc.
More useless non-sense drivel. Until the NAACP and Black Lives Matter crowd stop acting like victims, they will always be self identified victims. Even when no one is victimizing them (you pulled me over because I'm black, you fired me because I'm black, you denied me a job because I'm black). When in actuality they were pulled over for having an expired tag and two tail lights out, they were fired for stealing, or denied a job because there were better candidates with better education and work history to hire.
 
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Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
A black woman friend? Do you spend a lot of time riding in the car with her? How much time do you spend with her? What you really mean is a black woman you know of? Right? Hanging out with my black friends really opened my eyes. But you have to really spend some time with them to see it. Hang out at their house, spend some time riding around as a passenger in their car. Etc.
More useless non-sense drivel. Until the NAACP and Black Lives Matter crowd stop acting like victims, they will always be self identified victims. Even when no one is victimizing them (you pulled me over because I'm black, you fired me because I'm black, you denied me a job because I'm black). When in actuality they were pulled over for having an expired tag and two tail lights out, they were fired for stealing, or denied a job because there were better candidates with better education and work history to hire.
Youre a white guy with the handle bubba from Florida. And you say racism doesn't exist. You don't see any credibility issue there? I'll believe there is no more racism when I hear it from black people, who you tell us we should not believe.
 
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Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Body camera or dash cam are good tools to show the action of Police officer and/or the other party. In this case the PO is totally justify with his action. A little off topic: A Florida man killed by a plain cloth PO at 3 AM while waiting for a tow truck, without any video it is now he said she said situation. Whom do you trust ? The plain cloth PO account ? The victim is death so he couldn't say a thing.
I've been broken down on the side of the road and a police officer stopped to check out the situation. I wasn't summarily executed for no apparent reason. Reasonable people, acting reasonably, NEVER have problems with cops, don't get shot, and don't get killed. Fascinating concept that is too hard to grasp by many apparently. Cops don't just shoot people. They shoot people that are aggressive, have weapons, or make attacking or lunging actions.
Did you read this ? If not, you should read it before commenting. Put yourself in the shoes of Corey Jones, what should you do at 3 AM when some stranger approached you in the manner that Raja(police officer) did. http://news.yahoo.com/corey-jones-death-new-questions-about-the-latest-police-shooting-in-florida-215620083.html;_ylt=A86.J71X5DhWQTMAB8MnnIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTByb2lvbXVuBGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg--
Quote:
The police officer, Raja, who pulled up in an unmarked van and got out wearing jeans, a T-shirt and a ball cap, never displayed his badge, Crump said last week after Florida’s 15th judicial circuit state attorney briefed him and the Jones family.
 
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Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Body camera or dash cam are good tools to show the action of Police officer and/or the other party. In this case the PO is totally justify with his action. A little off topic: A Florida man killed by a plain cloth PO at 3 AM while waiting for a tow truck, without any video it is now he said she said situation. Whom do you trust ? The plain cloth PO account ? The victim is death so he couldn't say a thing.
I've been broken down on the side of the road and a police officer stopped to check out the situation. I wasn't summarily executed for no apparent reason. Reasonable people, acting reasonably, NEVER have problems with cops, don't get shot, and don't get killed. Fascinating concept that is too hard to grasp by many apparently. Cops don't just shoot people. They shoot people that are aggressive, have weapons, or make attacking or lunging actions.
Quote:
How was Corey Jones supposed to know that the man who drove up to him on dark Florida highway in an unmarked white van with tinted windows; who walked out in a t-shirt, jeans and a baseball cap; who never showed a badge; and who ultimately shot him dead was a police officer? Jones' gun was not next to him when he died about 80 to 100 feet from his car, having at some point tried to run away. Around 3 a.m., Palm Beach Gardens police Officer Nouman Raja pulled up to check out what he thought was an abandoned car. Raja was on duty but was wearing civilian clothing and driving an unmarked car, police Chief Stephen Stepp told reporters earlier this week. "As the officer exited his vehicle, he was suddenly confronted by an armed subject," Stepp said. "As a result of the confrontation, the officer discharged his firearm, resulting in the death of Mr. Corey Jones." Yet Jones' family has a hard time believing this is exactly what happened, noting that Raja is the only one alive who can tell his side of the story.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/22/us/florida-officer-corey-jones-shooting
 
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Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Put yourself in the shoes of Corey Jones, what should you do at 3 AM when some stranger approached you in the manner that Raja(police officer) did.
A stranger stops on the side of the road, you be suspicious and have your guard up. You don't go straight into attack mode. Corey Jones is dead because of Corey Jones's actions. I'm so sick and tired and tired and sick of black lives matter imbeciles blaming the police for the actions of someone else. And yes it DIRECTLY impacts me as Trayvon Martin was shot IN MY FREAKING BACK YARD only 45 feet from my rear door. The aftermath of that whole fiasco was ridiculous. Association dues/insurance went up $100/month due to the multi million dollar pay day that Trayvon Martin's egg/sperm donors received (I refuse to call them parents. If they were parents, their good little boy would still be alive)
 
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Dave, your example is great. Such things happen every day, but the media isn't interested in showing this. We had a recent complaint up here, well, last winter. A lady was tossed in the drunk tank, essentially for being drunk in public and causing a disturbance. Her mother got involved the next day, and claims were made that the police stole her jacket and were taking her on a Starlight Tour (i.e. dropping off someone outside of town in the cold with no appropriate clothing so they don't make it back alive). The GPS, camera, and computer inquiries covered every second of the interaction. She had no jacket when picked up by the police. She lost it in her own drunken stupor. She was taken promptly to cells, and never anywhere approaching the city limits. Of course, this news wasn't prominent. The original complaint was front page news.
 
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Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Put yourself in the shoes of Corey Jones, what should you do at 3 AM when some stranger approached you in the manner that Raja(police officer) did.
A stranger stops on the side of the road, you be suspicious and have your guard up. You don't go straight into attack mode. Corey Jones is dead because of Corey Jones's actions. I'm so sick and tired and tired and sick of black lives matter imbeciles blaming the police for the actions of someone else. And yes it DIRECTLY impacts me as Trayvon Martin was shot IN MY FREAKING BACK YARD only 45 feet from my rear door. The aftermath of that whole fiasco was ridiculous. Association dues/insurance went up $100/month due to the multi million dollar pay day that Trayvon Martin's egg/sperm donors received (I refuse to call them parents. If they were parents, their good little boy would still be alive)
You should not take black or white or brown into this incident. You need to read the reports for this incident from police and various news agencies. This case is clearly indicate the police officer Raja didn't do anything right and the result is a death man. If you don't bother to learn how this incident happened then you should not blame the victim for wrongful death by the actions of a police officer. Police officer Raja in unmarked van with tinted windows came up to Corey Jones disable vehicle wrong way and park his van at 90 degree to Corey Jones disable vehicle, he came out of the van in civilian cloth with a hat without identify himself as a police officer. Corey Jones laid death about 80-100 ft from his vehicle and the gun was between him and his vehicle, this means he ran away and most likely got shot from behind. This is clearly not abut black or white, this is a case of abuse of power by an officer.
 
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Originally Posted By: bubbatime
. And yes it DIRECTLY impacts me as Trayvon Martin was shot IN MY FREAKING BACK YARD only 45 feet from my rear door. The aftermath of that whole fiasco was ridiculous..
That was a famous national case. Is the truth that Trayvon attacked George and tryed to kill him, as the press covered it? Race may have played a small role in George especially being on gaurd about a large black young man peering into patio doors and zig-zagging through your neighborhood. The entire nation feels your pain. We do end up stereotyping blacks sometimes since they tend to be the ones leading criminal lives (disproportionately statistically).
 
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Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: hatt
Only criminal police oppose cameras.
Idiot comment.
Go ahead and explain why good cops don't want cameras. All the research indicates cameras are very helpful. Lets see who the idiot is.
 
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So this lady thinks she was being picked on because she is black? It couldn't possibly have anything to do with the fact that she was walking right down the middle of the street and even holding up traffic? Who in their right mind walks down the middle of the street? It seems to me she was asking for what she got...
 
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Originally Posted By: Sunnyinhollister
The truly sad part is that she is a journalism professor. So much for journalistic integrity!
Journalistic integrity nowadays is a mythical creature, like unicorns or centaurs.
 
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Originally Posted By: hatt
Go ahead and explain why good cops don't want cameras. All the research indicates cameras are very helpful.
It is helpful, and I'd have no problem with it. Obviously, however, some people don't like their entire working day videotaped and/or audiotaped. That doesn't mean they're not good at their job or they're not doing their job with integrity and to the best of their abilities. Let's extrapolate this to me owning a company that employs a dozen desk jockeys of various sorts. I'd be perfectly within my rights to aim a camera over their shoulder, or use whatever other means I like, to monitor every keystroke they make and every site they visit. Does it mean they would all agree to it? Would anyone who disagrees with it automatically be a bad employee?
 

dishdude

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Many employees have cameras and monitoring on them all day long, it's work! You have no privacy there. This example is perfect as to why good cops should want body cameras.
 
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