More modern oil options for a Porsche 944?

[AK944]

I've got an '85 Porsche 944 as a project car that I've been running 20w50 Valvoline VR1 in without issues. But, getting bored while the car is in storage, I figured I'd ask people who know way more about oil than I do if there is a better option I could try. This is mostly for my own curiosity, and the fact that its kind of annoying that they only sell the VR1 in 1qt bottles up here in Canada so I have to end up buying 7 small bottles every oil change.

The consensus I've seen in the 944 community is these engines need a heavy oil with lots of zddp (~1300 ppm) with the latter requirement being driven by the flat tappet design of the lifters. Based on things I've read on here about other older vehicles, it seems like the requirements laid out in the owners manuals tended to be driven by the available technology when they were new, and I assume we've come a long way in 40 years.

I know 80s BMW owners sometimes run more modern oils with lighter weights than the 20w 50 a lot of them were specified to run, but the valvetrain designs on those engines, to my knowledge, differ significantly from those of the 944 and the other 80s water cooled Porsches. Porsche Classic now sells their own synthetic 10w50 for the 924, 928, 944, and 968 but I haven't seen much feedback on it, probably because it costs significantly more than the VR1 everyone uses.

I'm mostly just wondering if there is a readily available/relatively affordable alternative to the VR1 which is worth trying, either with more modern technology or just an alternative conventional oil (ie. LiquiMoly's 20w50 offerings or Castrol GTX Classic).

 

[AK944]

On the A40 thing, Porsche's service bulletin seems to say not to use it in classic vehicles. They don't give a reason why though

 

[kschachn]

On the A40 thing, Porsche's service bulletin seems to say not to use it in classic vehicles. They don't give a reason why thoughView attachment 319708

You're reading something different from me then.

Besides, A40 isn't the point there, it is grade. Or more specifically HT/HS. You're covered by the Mobil 1 product I noted.

 

[GI_GRIFF]

Besides, A40 isn't the point there, it is grade. Or more specifically HT/HS. You're covered by the Mobil 1 product I noted.

@AK944, @kschachn is pointing out the HTHS. Now I am not the expert in any way here. However, if you don't know, different oils have different HTHS numbers. The lower the HTHS the weaker the film strength of that particular oil is. The HTHS test determines the film strength of oils. The stronger the film strength (higher the HTHS number) the better that particular oil is at preventing metal on metal contact inside your engine under load. I just wanted to try explaining a little about HTHS numbers, in case you didn't know. Take Care

 

[Japanese]

They don't give a reason why though

The only reason is because classic cars oils are full of ZDDP. So, for that reason stick to Valvoline VR1 20W-50 or Castrol GTX 20W-50. If you use the conventional VR1 you may try VR1 synthetic as well, both of them are listed as classic car oils.

I think only VR1 synthetic comes in bottles only, but conventional VR1 comes in 5 qt jugs too. If you order on Amazon or eBay, I'm sure you can find 5 qt jugs too.
Can you shop US market oil on Amazon and eBay or Canadian only?

 

[AK944]

Thanks for the explanation @GI_GRIFF !

So far I've narrowed down my options based on recommendations from here and what is readily available. I've priced everything out in $CAD for what an oil change on my 944 would use (~6L)

Conventional:
Valvoline VR1 20W-50 $84.73

Castrol GTX Classic 20W-50 $71.17

LiquiMoly Touring High Tech 20W-50 $117.52 (Only sold in 5L jugs so two are needed)

Liquimoly MoS2 20W-50 $85.20

Shell Rotella 15W-40 $68.91

*the liquimoly offerings ostensibly have ~1200ppm of zddp and people have run them successfully in 80s porsche engines, it just seems to have been less common as they were more costly than VR1

Semi Synthetic:
LiquiMoly MoS2 10W-40 $91.76

Motul Classic 2100 15W-50 $102.11

Synthetic:
Castrol 5W-50 $82.47
(this was the closest I could find to @kschachn 's recommendation with a 50 weight as Mobil 1 5w50 doesn't seem to be sold by any major retailer here)

Mobil 1 15W-50 $121.74

Based on the costs/availability, the Castrol 5W-50 would make sense if I wanted to try a modern synthetic, and GTX classic or the LiquiMoly MoS2 if I want to choose something closer to stock.

Does anyone have any insight on whether the MoS2 oils will cause problems?

 

[AK944]

The only reason is because classic cars oils are full of ZDDP. So, for that reason stick to Valvoline VR1 20W-50 or Castrol GTX 20W-50. If you use the conventional VR1 you may try VR1 synthetic as well, both of them are listed as classic car oils.

I think only VR1 synthetic comes in bottles only, but conventional VR1 comes in 5 qt jugs too. If you order on Amazon or eBay, I'm sure you can find 5 qt jugs too.
Can you shop US market oil on Amazon and eBay or Canadian only?

For whatever reason, I don't see the Jugs of VR1 or any synthetic VR1 being sold up here (Napa used to but seems to have stopped carrying it). I wish I could just order from the US, but shipping costs on automotive fluids seem to get pretty outrageous (probably due to the weight).

 

[Japanese]

*the liquimoly offerings ostensibly have ~1200ppm of zddp and people have run them successfully in 80s porsche engines, it just seems to have been less common as they were more costly than VR1

Both VR1 and VR1 synthetic have:
Zinc: 1400ppm
Phosphorous: 1300ppm

VR1 20W-50
https://sharena21.springcm.com/Publ...3793b338/def13d07-04ba-ed11-b81d-48df3793b338

VR1 20W-50 synthetic
https://sharena21.springcm.com/Publ...2d889bd3/3207a799-e29c-e711-9c10-ac162d889bd3

These are interesting full synthetic oils for modern vehicles (we were commenting on them on another thread about BMW M oil), but if Porsche specifically says to use classic car oils, I wouldn't use them:

Motul 8100 X-Power 10W-60
https://azupim01.motul.com/media/mo...-power_10w-60__en_fr_motul_17950_20240202.pdf

Castrol Edge 10W-60
https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/...70F91B080258BDD0051308C/$File/wepp-dbd7vz.pdf

 

[Selmorides]

Check out NAPA. Monthly special on Mobil 1 5W-50.

 

[AK944]

Both VR1 and VR1 synthetic have:
Zinc: 1400ppm
Phosphorus: 1300ppm

VR1 20W-50
https://sharena21.springcm.com/Publ...3793b338/def13d07-04ba-ed11-b81d-48df3793b338

VR1 20W-50 synthetic
https://sharena21.springcm.com/Publ...2d889bd3/3207a799-e29c-e711-9c10-ac162d889bd3

These are interesting full synthetic oil for modern vehicles (we were commenting on them on another thread about BMW M oil), but if Porsche specifically says to use classic car oils, I wouldn't use them:

Motul 8100 X-Power 10W-60
https://azupim01.motul.com/media/mo...-power_10w-60__en_fr_motul_17950_20240202.pdf

Castrol Edge 10W-60
https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/...70F91B080258BDD0051308C/$File/wepp-dbd7vz.pdf

On the 10w-60s, I know people have run them in 944s before, often in the turbo model. Porsche specifies 10w60 for the later aircooled cars like the 964 from what I know. Castrol seems hard to find here but Liquimoly and Motul both make options which are readily available. They would probably cost me about $110-115 for an oil change though.

 

[wings&wheels]

I'd recommend the Mobil 1 15w50 as it is reasonably priced and widely available and a staple in the old Pcar crowd. If it were mine, I would use Redline 10w50, my go to for our older water coolers. That said, Porsche does offer their Classic oil which would also be a fine choice.

I use Redline 10w60 in our air coolers, but I would not recommend that in your car. Probably overkill viscosity wise.

 

[BC1]

I would certainly use Valvoline Restore and Protect 20W50 with no doubt. Very affordable, and exceptionally good oil for the classics

Is this a typo or did they finally make a thick version?

 

[GI_GRIFF]

Is this a typo or did they finally make a thick version?

I am guessing it is sarcasm.

 

[Selmorides]

Is this a typo or did they finally make a thick version?

VR1 20W-50

 

[Japanese]

On the 10w-60s, I know people have run them in 944s before, often in the turbo model. Porsche specifies 10w60 for the later aircooled cars like the 964 from what I know. Castrol seems hard to find here but Liquimoly and Motul both make options which are readily available. They would probably cost me about $110-115 for an oil change though.

Yes, it looks like this oil is strictly recommended for 964/911:
https://shop.porschedowntowntoronto...W0H9uwxJv3kTcjEDf5q2idw31YDX2XOT0qc4oZamQ4P4b

259 Lake Shore Blvd East
Toronto, ON M5A 0W5
[email protected]

Valvoline VR1 20W-50 $84.73

Castrol GTX Classic 20W-50 $71.17

Price wise I would stick with VR1 20W-50 then.

Here are images from 1984 Porsche 944 manual regarding the engine oil. 10W-60 is not listed, but 15W-40, 10W-50, 15W-50, 20W-50 and even 10W-40 are listed:
https://forums.pelicanparts.com/por...ical-forum/420815-944-oil-recommendation.html

 

[wings&wheels]

Yes, it looks like this oil is strictly recommended for 964/911:
https://shop.porschedowntowntoronto...W0H9uwxJv3kTcjEDf5q2idw31YDX2XOT0qc4oZamQ4P4b

Porsche recommends their 20w50 and 10w60 for the air coolers based on displacement with 3.0 and greater taking the 10w60. In years, that was roughly '77, considerably prior to the 964 and through the 993.

 

[TONNSOFFUNN]

Would anyone have a suggestion for someone that runs their 944 year round? I've been using Mobil 1 15w50 for the time I've owned it. Temperatures in the winter months here are -20°C to -30°C. Probably not the greatest oil to run in those temps, I'll admit, but I was always worried about running too thin of oil.

 

[kschachn]

Would anyone have a suggestion for someone that runs their 944 year round? I've been using Mobil 1 15w50 for the time I've owned it. Temperatures in the winter months here are -20°C to -30°C. Probably not the greatest oil to run in those temps, I'll admit, but I was always worried about running too thin of oil.

Run Mobil 1 5W-50 then.

 

[GI_GRIFF]

I've got an '85 Porsche 944 as a project car that I've been running 20w50 Valvoline VR1 in without issues. But, getting bored while the car is in storage, I figured I'd ask people who know way more about oil than I do if there is a better option I could try. This is mostly for my own curiosity, and the fact that its kind of annoying that they only sell the VR1 in 1qt bottles up here in Canada so I have to end up buying 7 small bottles every oil change.

The consensus I've seen in the 944 community is these engines need a heavy oil with lots of zddp (~1300 ppm) with the latter requirement being driven by the flat tappet design of the lifters. Based on things I've read on here about other older vehicles, it seems like the requirements laid out in the owners manuals tended to be driven by the available technology when they were new, and I assume we've come a long way in 40 years.

I know 80s BMW owners sometimes run more modern oils with lighter weights than the 20w 50 a lot of them were specified to run, but the valvetrain designs on those engines, to my knowledge, differ significantly from those of the 944 and the other 80s water cooled Porsches. Porsche Classic now sells their own synthetic 10w50 for the 924, 928, 944, and 968 but I haven't seen much feedback on it, probably because it costs significantly more than the VR1 everyone uses.

I'm mostly just wondering if there is a readily available/relatively affordable alternative to the VR1 which is worth trying, either with more modern technology or just an alternative conventional oil (ie. LiquiMoly's 20w50 offerings or Castrol GTX Classic).

https://www.motul.com/en-US/products?range=AUTO&viscosity=5W-50

 

[altaylar]

VR1 20W-50

exactly.
VR1 is a really good oil for classics. I would use it with confidence.

 

[Selmorides]

exactly.
VR1 is a really good oil for classics. I would use it with confidence.

I’m a fan and have used 10W-30 conventional and synthetic in the Tempest but I don’t have a catalytic converter. VR1 heavy on ZDDP. Don’t you remember the rotten egg smell sitting at a light near a car with a spoiled converter? IMHO Mobil 1 5W-50 way to go.