Even the "name" brands have differances.
Mopar ATF+4
- Thread starter rszappa1
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Even the "name" brands have differances.
I just did a drain an refill before winter on my Dakota with ATF+4 Advance Auto house brand and I will not use it again. I am sure it meets the Chrysler specs. for +4 but it is different from the Mopar brand in a couple of ways. First it has a very strong odor that has yet to dissapate after thousands of miles on it, and second since the change out at low temps. (0F +/- 5)the transmission will not shift into overdrive until I drive about 3 miles, that is different compared to the Mopar which at 0F or so would usually shift in or take only 0.5-1 mile or so to shift. I drive the same route every day and I am very aware of these little quirks with my truck. The next change will be with Mopar gallons, or Valvoline late summer/early fall and I will see if I see my performance back to what had been normal. Folks can flame away, but this is a real world application and observation, and I have nothing against AA or any other brand. If I observe the same thing with Valvoline I will report the same.
How far was it run on the prior fluid? You need to retrain the shift solenoid. It'll behave exactly the same with new Mopar in it as well. You could change to a different ATF+4 fluid every day for the rest of the year if we had that many and it won't make any difference. Go ahead and try, see for yourself.
I change every year in the late summer early fall and that works out to about 18-20K miles, I will run the same on this fluid before changing out. The odor is my biggest complaint as I probably only see 5-10 days a year cold enough to have an issue--it is really significantly stronger and noticible after driving-strong for a good 15-20 minutes. But that in itself leads me to believe there are differences, how significant, probably not very.
How does the Valvoline ATF+4 compare to MOPAR's ATF+4? I had a shop where I take my truck put in the Valvoline fluid telling me it was the same formula as the MOPAR fluid. I left it in for around 300 miles and I had it changed out by my dealer. (They did not suspect). I just did not feel comfortable with it in there. Can anyone let me know how they compare?
TIA!
TIA!
According to what I have read here, Chrysler tightly controls what can be labeled as ATF+4. To get the license, the blender must use the same blending stocks and the same additive package. From what I've read here, it is the same.
Its claimed to be the same. But, no formula is exact. Each one can have its variables or range within that formula. Sorry, but licensing and specs are not as tightly controlled as you hoped.
I'll stick with the name brands, like Mopar, Valvoline, Mobil, and Pennzoil. I don't have too much faith in the quality control of generic brands.
Any bottle labelled ATF+4 can be used. Thats the whole point of licensing a product. So, even the Advanceauto and Supertech ATF+4 are supposedly good enough. If you're on a budget, IMO, any maintenance is better then neglect.
Barely meeting a spec vs exceeding a spec is point that I'm trying to make.
Over the years, various fluids have been pulled for not meeting various requirements. You'll just have to wonder how frequent Chrysler's test samplings are on what is on the shelves at your local autoparts stores and whether thats good enough quality control. If its as good as the TSB, reliability, and recall histories of some of their products, I doubt that they have too much control over their 'licensed products'. If you can't police your internal manufacturing, how competent will the aftermarket policing be?
Even though my next drain/refill is with Pennzoil ATF+4, I'll recommend Valvoline to everyone. If Valvoline is not your brand of choice, use Mopar!
I'll stick with the name brands, like Mopar, Valvoline, Mobil, and Pennzoil. I don't have too much faith in the quality control of generic brands.
Any bottle labelled ATF+4 can be used. Thats the whole point of licensing a product. So, even the Advanceauto and Supertech ATF+4 are supposedly good enough. If you're on a budget, IMO, any maintenance is better then neglect.
Barely meeting a spec vs exceeding a spec is point that I'm trying to make.
Over the years, various fluids have been pulled for not meeting various requirements. You'll just have to wonder how frequent Chrysler's test samplings are on what is on the shelves at your local autoparts stores and whether thats good enough quality control. If its as good as the TSB, reliability, and recall histories of some of their products, I doubt that they have too much control over their 'licensed products'. If you can't police your internal manufacturing, how competent will the aftermarket policing be?
Even though my next drain/refill is with Pennzoil ATF+4, I'll recommend Valvoline to everyone. If Valvoline is not your brand of choice, use Mopar!
My Valvoline Synthetic ATF+4 in my manual seemed very thick this winter. More so than MOPAR stuff was. Probably go onto Amsoil.
How does Schaeffer's ATF work in the +3 or +4 Mopar world? I'm using Pennzoil +3 since I can't get the Mopar stuff any more for a 93 Voyager 3speed.
The older 3-speed is less sensitive to ATF chosen when compared to the electronically controlled 4 speeds.
I would say that ANY multivehicle ATF will work well.. Schaeffers, Mobil, Pennzoil, Kendall, Castrol, Maxlife......
Also, why not use ATF+4? Even the cheapest store brand +4 should be better then +3. Availability for +4 is excellent with 5 brands spread out among the various autoparts and department stores around here.
How old is this unit? miles? maintenance history? rebuilds? updates?
You can get real Mopar ATF+4 at Walmart for ~$4.50 a quart.
I get my ATF +4 at y dealer for $4.55/L. Look around.
I grabbed a bunch of the ST ATF+4 when I was in an American Wallmart a while ago. Great price for that stuff. Have two vehicles requiring it, now. Would prefer a good manual transmission but that's another gripe...!
John.
John.
It's a 93 voyager with a 4 banger and a 3 speed auto that I inherited. Engine had oil changes, but the trans had one change in 62k and 11 years. Change was done with DexII.
I changed it three times the first year with +3 Pennzoil and the color returned to red. It runs well and shifts well now, and I'd like to keep it around the family for a few years. 82k now.
If that +4 will work I'll go that route. Mopar for $4-5 is good.
I changed it three times the first year with +3 Pennzoil and the color returned to red. It runs well and shifts well now, and I'd like to keep it around the family for a few years. 82k now.
If that +4 will work I'll go that route. Mopar for $4-5 is good.
I am not sure how the Valvoline will compare to the Mopar ATF +4 but here is the information I found on the Valvoline +4.
Valvoline ATF +4
It does says on the label that it is "Full Synthetic", if that means anything?? May be, unDummy could chime in here.
I am interested as I want to replace the ATF (drop pan & replace fluid & filter) of my Chrysler 300 5spd AT as soon as I hit 10K Kms, so I am really looking forward to use the best possible fluid. Here in Ontario, Canada I have only, as of yet, access to the Mopar and Valvoline ATF +4.
Valvoline ATF +4
It does says on the label that it is "Full Synthetic", if that means anything?? May be, unDummy could chime in here.
I am interested as I want to replace the ATF (drop pan & replace fluid & filter) of my Chrysler 300 5spd AT as soon as I hit 10K Kms, so I am really looking forward to use the best possible fluid. Here in Ontario, Canada I have only, as of yet, access to the Mopar and Valvoline ATF +4.
I know that Valvoline and Mobil are OEM suppliers. This doesn't mean that there aren't other suppliers. So, I wouldn't worry about either!
The word synthetic is a marketing term. In case of an oil, it means that the basestock is synthetic. But, rarely do they tell you how much of the bottle is basestock. Bottle label is not worth debating about!
http://www.pzlqs.com/Tech/Pdsheet/DomesticMarketing/Gear&Transmission/pdf/ATF4.pdf
Compare ATF+4 from Pennzoil and Valvoline:
Visc at 100: Pzl=7.71 Valv=7.55 ValvMSDS~7.3-7.8
Visc index: 198 for both
Flash point: Pzl=410 Valv=385
-40 cst: Pzl=9300 Valv=9000 ValvMSDS~ Pour point: -48 for both
Visc @ +40: Pzl=35.13 Valv=34.13
Valvoline additives: 460=phos, 690=Calcium, Z=0, Boron=140
SAE ATF+4 test fluid: 460=phos, 690=calcium, Boron=130, 100visc=7.43, -40visc=9490, Flashpoint 417,
Valvoline MSDS ingredients:
Basestock 75-85%
VII 8-18%
Transmission fluid additive: 2.7-13%
POLYALKYLMETHACRYLATE 4.4-14
In the Mobil/Mopar ATF+4 MSDS, no ingredients are given except ACRYLATE POLYMER 10-20%. Thats a pretty big range!
Mobil products numbers: 520270-00, 97W904 and 522813-00, 97Z556. Maybe you can match that to something on the Mopar bottle? Break out the UV or black lightbulbs!
If the blending specs are so broad, we would have to believe that any fluid blended within the range should pass the minimum Chrysler requirements.
Now all we need is datasheets for Supertech, Mobil, and Advancedauto ATF+4.
The word synthetic is a marketing term. In case of an oil, it means that the basestock is synthetic. But, rarely do they tell you how much of the bottle is basestock. Bottle label is not worth debating about!
http://www.pzlqs.com/Tech/Pdsheet/DomesticMarketing/Gear&Transmission/pdf/ATF4.pdf
Compare ATF+4 from Pennzoil and Valvoline:
Visc at 100: Pzl=7.71 Valv=7.55 ValvMSDS~7.3-7.8
Visc index: 198 for both
Flash point: Pzl=410 Valv=385
-40 cst: Pzl=9300 Valv=9000 ValvMSDS~ Pour point: -48 for both
Visc @ +40: Pzl=35.13 Valv=34.13
Valvoline additives: 460=phos, 690=Calcium, Z=0, Boron=140
SAE ATF+4 test fluid: 460=phos, 690=calcium, Boron=130, 100visc=7.43, -40visc=9490, Flashpoint 417,
Valvoline MSDS ingredients:
Basestock 75-85%
VII 8-18%
Transmission fluid additive: 2.7-13%
POLYALKYLMETHACRYLATE 4.4-14
In the Mobil/Mopar ATF+4 MSDS, no ingredients are given except ACRYLATE POLYMER 10-20%. Thats a pretty big range!
Mobil products numbers: 520270-00, 97W904 and 522813-00, 97Z556. Maybe you can match that to something on the Mopar bottle? Break out the UV or black lightbulbs!
If the blending specs are so broad, we would have to believe that any fluid blended within the range should pass the minimum Chrysler requirements.
Now all we need is datasheets for Supertech, Mobil, and Advancedauto ATF+4.
Thanks unDummy, I already have the OEM Mopar ATF +4 as well as Valvoline +4 sitting in my garage, so I will just toss a coin when I am replacing the fluid as I am sure I cannot go wrong with either.
I don't know about the ATF but I had a older car that I was not going to keep long once. (bought it just to drive to work until I could afford to trade up) I started using whatever oil was on sale in it but always a name brand such as Valvoline, Pennzoil, etc. Then I decided that since I didn't plan to keep it, why not use the cheapest oil possible that meets the specs. At next change I put Walmart Supertech 10w30 in it. That's the only time that I've ever been able to tell a difference in any oil ever! That engine went to knocking, ticking, pecking, etc. I thought at first that it must be a coincidence and that the engine was just starting to let go in it. But the next oil change, I went back to a name brand, Pennzoil 10w30. Guess what! The engine smoothed back out and sounded normal again. I don't think I'll ever put a Walmart brand lube in anything that I own again. I guess it could be that I got a bad batch or something but even so, that would mean that their quality control is not too good.
Valvoline seemed just a tad different in my year to "UN-scientific" review. Remember the Valvoline seemed to thicken a bit more in the Manual Trans than did the original fluid. Harder to shift. Power Steering does not seem to care though???
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