Molybdenum in oil?

Gokhan · Apr 12, 2014

Moly is safe on the catalytic converter. Phosphorus is very poisonous to the catalytic converter -- hence the maximum limits on ZDDP.

Organic moly -- the kind comes with the oil, as opposed to the aftermarkets MoS_2 powders -- does not require long periods to coat the sliding surfaces. Once the engine reaches the normal operating temperature, organic moly is activated.

The moly in Pennzoil Conventional is probably junk -- a very cheap kind of moly not manufactured by Infineum, hardly effective. You probably get better protection with 50 ppm Mo of Infineum trinuclear moly than with 500 ppm Mo of Pennzoil Conventional moly. I am saying it based on my experience with Pennzoil Conventional SN 5w20 in my engine -- I didn't like its performance.

dave1251 · Apr 12, 2014

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
The moly in Pennzoil Conventional is probably junk -- a very cheap kind of moly not manufactured by Infineum, hardly effective. You probably get better protection with 50 ppm Mo of Infineum trinuclear moly than with 500 ppm Mo of Pennzoil Conventional moly. I am saying it based on my experience with Pennzoil Conventional SN 5w20 in my engine -- I didn't like its performance.

You know this how?

rikstaker · Apr 12, 2014

Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
The moly in Pennzoil Conventional is probably junk -- a very cheap kind of moly not manufactured by Infineum, hardly effective. You probably get better protection with 50 ppm Mo of Infineum trinuclear moly than with 500 ppm Mo of Pennzoil Conventional moly. I am saying it based on my experience with Pennzoil Conventional SN 5w20 in my engine -- I didn't like its performance.

You know this how?

Some people, myself included have sensitive butt dynos..

dave1251 · Apr 12, 2014

Originally Posted By: rikstaker
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
The moly in Pennzoil Conventional is probably junk -- a very cheap kind of moly not manufactured by Infineum, hardly effective. You probably get better protection with 50 ppm Mo of Infineum trinuclear moly than with 500 ppm Mo of Pennzoil Conventional moly. I am saying it based on my experience with Pennzoil Conventional SN 5w20 in my engine -- I didn't like its performance.

You know this how?

Some people, myself included have sensitive butt dynos..

very cheap kind of moly not manufactured by Infineum, hardly effective.

Indydriver · Apr 12, 2014

Isn't it interesting the the folks who demand data find a way to deny it when it doesn't support their "theories"? I can tell you one thing for absolute certain: TGMO SM is a vastly superior oil to Honda Full Synthetic SN.

Gokhan · Apr 12, 2014

Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
The moly in Pennzoil Conventional is probably junk -- a very cheap kind of moly not manufactured by Infineum, hardly effective. You probably get better protection with 50 ppm Mo of Infineum trinuclear moly than with 500 ppm Mo of Pennzoil Conventional moly. I am saying it based on my experience with Pennzoil Conventional SN 5w20 in my engine -- I didn't like its performance.

You know this how?

Trinuclear moly is usually not used at concentrations above 200 ppm Mo.

When you have an older, rougher-running, lower-power engine, it's easier to tell the friction-modifying effects and quality of oil. Also, my used oil analysis with TGMO 0W-20 SN are better than with Pennzoil Conventional 5w20, but of course, this isn't necessarily a proof as I ran the Pennzoil Conventional SN 5w20 only once after a five-year streak of 15w40 CJ-4 HDEO.

MolaKule · Apr 12, 2014

Quote:
The moly in Pennzoil Conventional is probably junk -- a very cheap kind of moly not manufactured by Infineum, hardly effective. You probably get better protection with 50 ppm Mo of Infineum trinuclear moly than with 500 ppm Mo of Pennzoil Conventional moly. I am saying it based on my experience with Pennzoil Conventional SN 5w20 in my engine -- I didn't like its performance.

SOPUS uses Infineum tri-nuclear moly in all of their products.

Quote:
Trinuclear moly is usually not used at concentrations above 200 ppm Mo.

How much moly is used depends on how much friction modification you want or need, the quality of base oils, and the mix of components in the PI package.

dave1251 · Apr 12, 2014

Originally Posted By: Indydriver
Isn't it interesting the the folks who demand data find a way to deny it when it doesn't support their "theories"? I can tell you one thing for absolute ~~certain~~ opinion: TGMO SM is a vastly superior oil to Honda Full Synthetic SN.

This would be more accurate. Unless you can state some specific performance criteria.

KCJeep · Apr 12, 2014

Originally Posted By: MolaKule

SOPUS uses Infineum tri-nuclear moly in all of their products.

Woot Woot go Pennzoil conventional! I can tell you one thing my Jeep loves it. Nothing runs as quiet in it as Pennzoil conventional.

Gokhan · Apr 12, 2014

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
SOPUS uses Infineum tri-nuclear moly in all of their products.

How do you know, as it's propriety info?

Shannow · Apr 13, 2014

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
SOPUS uses Infineum tri-nuclear moly in all of their products.

How do you know, as it's propriety info?

I asked the same "how do you KNOW" a few posts back in response to

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
SM version of TGMO 0W-20 used older types of moly, which required more than 500 ppm Mo. SN version uses the far more potent trinuclear moly, which is sufficient at around 100 ppm.

JAG · Apr 13, 2014

I'm laughing about that Shannow. It's ironic or something along those lines.

Clevy · Apr 13, 2014

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
The moly in Pennzoil Conventional is probably junk -- a very cheap kind of moly not manufactured by Infineum, hardly effective. You probably get better protection with 50 ppm Mo of Infineum trinuclear moly than with 500 ppm Mo of Pennzoil Conventional moly. I am saying it based on my experience with Pennzoil Conventional SN 5w20 in my engine -- I didn't like its performance.

You know this how?

Trinuclear moly is usually not used at concentrations above 200 ppm Mo.

When you have an older, rougher-running, lower-power engine, it's easier to tell the friction-modifying effects and quality of oil. Also, my used oil analysis with TGMO 0W-20 SN are better than with Pennzoil Conventional 5w20, but of course, this isn't necessarily a proof as I ran the Pennzoil Conventional SN 5w20 only once after a five-year streak of 15w40 CJ-4 HDEO.

What part of a used oil analysis is better. If your talking a few ppm of wear metals you must be aware of how meaningless that is,right?

And are we talking about a used oil analysis in an 85 tercel.

MolaKule · Apr 13, 2014

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
SOPUS uses Infineum tri-nuclear moly in all of their products.

How do you know, as it's propriety info?

I work with the 5 largest additive suppliers and ten other minor additive suppliers in the world and communicate with their top additive scientists/developers.

I know who supplies additives to Valvoline, EXOM, SOPUS, Castrol, etc.

Quote:
The moly in Pennzoil Conventional is probably junk -- a very cheap kind of moly not manufactured by Infineum, hardly effective. You probably get better protection with 50 ppm Mo of Infineum trinuclear moly than with 500 ppm Mo of Pennzoil Conventional moly. I am saying it based on my experience with Pennzoil Conventional SN 5w20 in my engine -- I didn't like its performance.

Moly in Pennzoil Conventional is junk? I respectfully disagree with your assessment.

FetchFar · Apr 13, 2014

I haven't seen anything with as much moly as Mazda SN 0w-20 at 600 ppm. (Schaeffer runs 300 ppm for comparison). Can I assume the Mazda is trinuclear?

Also, I wonder about the claims made by Mazda on the bottle. Says the lots-o-moly approach benefits a cold engine after startup before temperatures get the other antiwear additives to work properly. If this is such a good idea, why isn't it more common?

Hullthumper · Apr 13, 2014

Okay what about the effects of Moly on gearcases that call for motor oil but has wet clutch with friction lining. For instance my boats transmission/gearcase/reverse gear calls for Sae 20 CD grade oil but has a cone clutch with a friction material on it similiar to brake lining. Could the moly be too slippery so to speak. Seems that I have read oils with moly should not be used in motorcycles for this reason.

Garak · Apr 13, 2014

Originally Posted By: FetchFar
I haven't seen anything with as much moly as Mazda SN 0w-20 at 600 ppm. (Schaeffer runs 300 ppm for comparison). Can I assume the Mazda is trinuclear?

I can't see why any formulator would use 600 ppm of trinuclear moly. With a concentration that high, I would assume it is not trinuclear.

FetchFar · Apr 14, 2014

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: FetchFar
I haven't seen anything with as much moly as Mazda SN 0w-20 at 600 ppm. (Schaeffer runs 300 ppm for comparison). Can I assume the Mazda is trinuclear?

I can't see why any formulator would use 600 ppm of trinuclear moly. With a concentration that high, I would assume it is not trinuclear.

Just seems odd that Idemitsu, the makers of Mazda's 0w-20, chooses to depart from conventional wisdom and load it up with 2 to 6 times as much moly as anybody else out there. For example, if MolaKule or any group of tribologist/chemists were to formulate the lowest-wear oil they could, why would they use so much moly (600ppm)? Does Idemitsu know something we don't?

147_Grain · Apr 14, 2014

I also love Moly too, but I love my wife more!

Seriously, my two favorite oils are Pennzoil Ultra and Mobil 1 (including TGMO). I add Lubro Moly to both blends for a smoother, more efficient, quieter engine that gets more MPG's than average.

FetchFar · Apr 14, 2014

Originally Posted By: 147_Grain
Seriously, my two favorite oils are Pennzoil Ultra and Mobil 1 (including TGMO). I add Lubro Moly to both blends for a smoother, more efficient, quieter engine that gets more MPG's than average.

Some proof would be nice. Is moly, especially at 600 ppm, really good? Idemitsu claims it helps when an engine is cold and the other anti-wear (read zddp I guess) additives haven't had a chance to warm up. Could it be Idemitsu is merely using moly as a marketing gimmick with no real evidence it works at those high concentration levels {that sets their oil apart)?

Molybdenum in oil?

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