well, you got me there...i didn't know it wasn't a HD. But moot point...the point was your reason for posting about your bike vs mine. theres only one reason for that, you know what it is, i know what it is, you won't admit it. case closed. Next...
Moly and wet clutches
- Thread starter daz
- Start date
I went to their web site and looked at their motorcycle-specific oils. The link to the synthetic blend oil is broken, but all of the others say "JASO MA". Probably safe to assume that that one is also JASO MA. Torco, that is.
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I saw this thread at work hours ago and left laughing and wondering how it would turn out. The responder did seem as though all he wanted to do was brag about torque but the entrance of HD into this conversation shead a lot of light on the OP. There was no mention of Harley and there certainly was not a picture of a Harley. All I saw was some snot nose with a lot of anti Harley bull in his head. Can't even differentiate a Harley from a metric when it is right in front of his face.
Anyway moly has been discussed a lot but I have seen no evidence that moly will make your clutch slip. Maybe it will, maybe it won't. Just have not seen the rock solid proof. 90 ppm moly is used all the time with no problem. High moly blends like Red Line are not used in clutches by anyone I know. Everyone runs something low moly or no moly to be safe. And true the experts say all moly is not created equal. Try it and tell us. You know more than the rest of us anyway.
Anyway moly has been discussed a lot but I have seen no evidence that moly will make your clutch slip. Maybe it will, maybe it won't. Just have not seen the rock solid proof. 90 ppm moly is used all the time with no problem. High moly blends like Red Line are not used in clutches by anyone I know. Everyone runs something low moly or no moly to be safe. And true the experts say all moly is not created equal. Try it and tell us. You know more than the rest of us anyway.
I kind of like the way heavyhitter let him go for a couple more exchanges though. Even as far as to let him proclaim his knowlege of HDs. Kind of like how the NE Huskers beat the MO Tigers last week in the rain in the 4th. Congrats on the win heavyhitter.
By the way there might be a HD or two on the road that create a little TQ. Perhaps even more than your bike Daz. Hard to believe.
By the way there might be a HD or two on the road that create a little TQ. Perhaps even more than your bike Daz. Hard to believe.
Originally Posted By: EagleFTE
I kind of like the way heavyhitter let him go for a couple more exchanges though. Even as far as to let him proclaim his knowlege of HDs.
hehe
Well I could have really ruined his day with the numbers that my lil old TC88 was putting out after some work done to it. But thats a whole nother story.
Some people just get really sentimental towards thier bikes. Ive owned atleast 37 bikes over the years and they are just tools to me, currently I have 4 and each one does a specific job, I dont get too attached or caught up in it. There is always a faster, shinier, etc one around the corner.
I kind of like the way heavyhitter let him go for a couple more exchanges though. Even as far as to let him proclaim his knowlege of HDs.
hehe
Well I could have really ruined his day with the numbers that my lil old TC88 was putting out after some work done to it. But thats a whole nother story.
Some people just get really sentimental towards thier bikes. Ive owned atleast 37 bikes over the years and they are just tools to me, currently I have 4 and each one does a specific job, I dont get too attached or caught up in it. There is always a faster, shinier, etc one around the corner.
Yeah. Some people are right over the top when it comes to "their bike". Has to be the "best". Everything else is second rate. I find it particularly humourous when they bad mouth bikes they know nothing about. Generally speaking it's novice riders with no experience and lots of attitude that seem to be the worst.
Got to go. I've got the Valkyrie in the garage getting it ready to race at the Australian grand prix. Have to put a few more "Motul" decals on the windshield (for added speed) and take off the luggage rack to lighten it. Every bit counts.
Got to go. I've got the Valkyrie in the garage getting it ready to race at the Australian grand prix. Have to put a few more "Motul" decals on the windshield (for added speed) and take off the luggage rack to lighten it. Every bit counts.
Wouldn't a Valkerie with a good rider aboard win a Moto GP race easily? It has 6 cylinders, while the GP bikes only have 4. More cylinders = faster. ;-)
Originally Posted By: Redline955
Wouldn't a Valkerie with a good rider aboard win a Moto GP race easily? It has 6 cylinders, while the GP bikes only have 4. More cylinders = faster. ;-)
Hey dude.... You're letting the cat out of the bag.... I might lose my edge. Shoot! Now I have to put more Motul decals on the windshield! Darn!
Wouldn't a Valkerie with a good rider aboard win a Moto GP race easily? It has 6 cylinders, while the GP bikes only have 4. More cylinders = faster. ;-)
Hey dude.... You're letting the cat out of the bag.... I might lose my edge. Shoot! Now I have to put more Motul decals on the windshield! Darn!
The guys at Schaeffer in St. Louis say that they use their oil in wet clutch motorcycles, and we know it contains a lot of moly. I've used it with excellent results.
Schaeffer's gear oil contains powdered MoS2, and it works well in the wet clutches in limited slip differentials; I'm using it.
Schaeffer's gear oil contains powdered MoS2, and it works well in the wet clutches in limited slip differentials; I'm using it.
I have seen mild clutch slippage with oils like redline, where simply reverting back to a more friction oil, no more issue. That simple
Factors inside of this could simply be how strong your clutch pack is, a real strong one can probably withstand a slipery oil full of moly. Somebody mentioned moly only attaches to metal, none of that in the clutch. Thats not true, as you have as many metal plates as fiber. Judging by the black moly goo I've seen in some clutch baskets, no doubt it could cause slippage with enough of a build up.
The main reason I was running the redline was to cool the stator for longevity(test), this oil dissipates oil heat, like nothing i've ever seen, but after 5 or 6,ooo miles and a couple oil changes, I felt slight slips of the clutch, after 2 weeks I thought it was in my head. I happened to be at the bootom of a mountain and full throttled the bike up hill , i hit top gear and NO qestion I have slippage. Back to known good friction oil, all was well when I retested the mountain.
Just beware of this possiblity
Factors inside of this could simply be how strong your clutch pack is, a real strong one can probably withstand a slipery oil full of moly. Somebody mentioned moly only attaches to metal, none of that in the clutch. Thats not true, as you have as many metal plates as fiber. Judging by the black moly goo I've seen in some clutch baskets, no doubt it could cause slippage with enough of a build up.
The main reason I was running the redline was to cool the stator for longevity(test), this oil dissipates oil heat, like nothing i've ever seen, but after 5 or 6,ooo miles and a couple oil changes, I felt slight slips of the clutch, after 2 weeks I thought it was in my head. I happened to be at the bootom of a mountain and full throttled the bike up hill , i hit top gear and NO qestion I have slippage. Back to known good friction oil, all was well when I retested the mountain.
Just beware of this possiblity
I'm a little confused regarding how Redline oil would dissipate heat better than another oil? Wouldn't that be the function of the oil cooler or cooling system (air or liquid) of the engine?
Wouldn't the friction limiting effect of the oil contribute more to cooling than the oil's heat dissipation characteristics? How much difference in heat dissipation could one oil have over another relatively equivalent brand? Maybe I'm tuned out but this is a revelation for me. Never heard of an oil having at "heat dissipation" edge over others.
Wouldn't the friction limiting effect of the oil contribute more to cooling than the oil's heat dissipation characteristics? How much difference in heat dissipation could one oil have over another relatively equivalent brand? Maybe I'm tuned out but this is a revelation for me. Never heard of an oil having at "heat dissipation" edge over others.
Certainly - if an oil were to dissipate heat better than another oil then it would be marginal and not detectable by the human senses. A lab test under controlled conditions may prove this out.
If I were an motor oil company and I could prove this then I'd cetainly make sure to add that claim to each and every bottle that went out the door.
Just sayin'.
If I were an motor oil company and I could prove this then I'd cetainly make sure to add that claim to each and every bottle that went out the door.
Just sayin'.
Hey! Who knows? Maybe we're out of whack. Somehow, I don't think so. I've heard of coolant additives (Water Wetter, etc.) that increase a liquid cooling system's ability to dissipate heat. Never oil though. One would think that any manufacturer that produces air/oil cooled engines would recommend Redline for it's magical cooling qualities.
It was just in my own crude testing , while seeing what oils were capable of withstanding extreme heat. One thing they all had in common no matter what they could withstand they all retained heat and took time to cool.
The redline dissipated heat, at a near instananeous rate in comparison in cooling time, was my observation.
I thought that might aide in a wet stator application to aide with cooling, just a desperate attempt for more longevity, but the clutch kept me from further attmept with redline.
The redline dissipated heat, at a near instananeous rate in comparison in cooling time, was my observation.
I thought that might aide in a wet stator application to aide with cooling, just a desperate attempt for more longevity, but the clutch kept me from further attmept with redline.
Fact of the matter, molybdenum disulfide can causes problems with wet clutches, however, it is usually high levels of moly, older bikes with high miles, bikes with worn out clutches and bikes with weak springs on their clutches. Some newer bikes, (Honda 1100cc Shadow) had a problem with moly but it may have been related to weak springs from design.
IMO Moly in oils is an energy and therefore an environmental issue. There should be friction reducing molybdenum compounds in all oils as a matter of international common sense. Then the manufacturers would just have to deal with it and make changes or improvements to their products.
There is no reason why any manufacturer cannot isolate the clutch from the engine and transmission and make a dry clutch. With what is known about lubricants today, we accept increased engine wear in the engine, valve train and transmission so our clutches don't slip...and a clutch requires periodic maintenance anyways, in spite of being pampered. The present circumstance is not very logical.
Torco Oil's website could be accessed if information about its oil and moly compounds are desired. However, since Triumph includes Mobil 1 in their motorcycles from the factory, it is likely that is the quality of lubricant that is required to maintain the warranty in full force. Mobil 1 synthetics are definitely near the top of the synthetic lubricant pyramid. Torco is up there too, but not quite as high for street use IMO. Mobil 1 appears to have a broader protection that translates into mechanical longevity than Torco. Torco appears to be a little deficient in its shear performance under high stress and its wear performance in a transmission, which are inter-related.
IMO Moly in oils is an energy and therefore an environmental issue. There should be friction reducing molybdenum compounds in all oils as a matter of international common sense. Then the manufacturers would just have to deal with it and make changes or improvements to their products.
There is no reason why any manufacturer cannot isolate the clutch from the engine and transmission and make a dry clutch. With what is known about lubricants today, we accept increased engine wear in the engine, valve train and transmission so our clutches don't slip...and a clutch requires periodic maintenance anyways, in spite of being pampered. The present circumstance is not very logical.
Torco Oil's website could be accessed if information about its oil and moly compounds are desired. However, since Triumph includes Mobil 1 in their motorcycles from the factory, it is likely that is the quality of lubricant that is required to maintain the warranty in full force. Mobil 1 synthetics are definitely near the top of the synthetic lubricant pyramid. Torco is up there too, but not quite as high for street use IMO. Mobil 1 appears to have a broader protection that translates into mechanical longevity than Torco. Torco appears to be a little deficient in its shear performance under high stress and its wear performance in a transmission, which are inter-related.
Ducati's have dry clutches.
Originally Posted By: OilGuy2
With what is known about lubricants today, we accept increased engine wear in the engine, valve train and transmission so our clutches don't slip...
Can your prove this statement? What are the fact to back this up?
Moly is not the end all be all to make or break an engine oil. There are very fine oils on the market for various application, not just motorcycles that contain no moly.
With what is known about lubricants today, we accept increased engine wear in the engine, valve train and transmission so our clutches don't slip...
Can your prove this statement? What are the fact to back this up?
Moly is not the end all be all to make or break an engine oil. There are very fine oils on the market for various application, not just motorcycles that contain no moly.
