Mobil1 15w50 - 2014 Road King 103 H.O.

Messages
1,019
Location
Colorado, USA
Good use of the word with “luxurious”, that looks to be worth 16 pts in BITOG scrabble vs “molecules” at 13 pts (with respect to uniform or non-uniform). Luxurious wins the day, nothing finer than that to the ear. As well, Nothing as good as a good morning and a good cup of coffee! (y)
 

alarmguy

Thread starter
Messages
5,157
Location
South Carolina
Good use of the word with “luxurious”, that looks to be worth 16 pts in BITOG scrabble vs “molecules” at 13 pts (with respect to uniform or non-uniform). Luxurious wins the day, nothing finer than that to the ear. As well, Nothing as good as a good morning and a good cup of coffee! (y)
... soothing ... instead of unsettling 🤣
 
Messages
1,398
Location
WV
Thanks for your post. I remember you starting this experiment. I used the Mobil 15-50 exclusively in my TC 88 and was happy with it. But it is a car oil. Isn't your Mystik a truck diesel oil? If you look at the Mobil 20-50 MC oil, it has twice the anti-wear ingredients. I've used the Mobil 1 and Valvoline syn 20-50 in my 14 103. IMO the Valvoline runs a little quieter. I've had UOAs done on both after 5k miles and they are just plain boring to look at. You feel like you've wasted your money.lol
BTW, the 2 mechanics at the indy shop I use told me that the 103 is one of the best engines HD has ever made. They are both near retirement and have been working on Harleys their whole lives. They told me to stay away from the 110's. But you already know how good your engine is.
 
Messages
1,019
Location
Colorado, USA
^^Good post^^

Here’s a thought ( or a thought gone wrong...), ymmv. The main anti-wear ingredients we typically think of are zinc/phos. Moly and boron as well. They work in high pressure areas of a valve train (typically). If the valve train isn’t stressed to the point of needing the z/p to come into play or if a given amount of z/p is enough to limit excess wear due to the nature of a specific engine, the extra additives above and beyond that threshold may not come into play. With that, analysis could show insignificant differences in wear rates between oils with different anti-wear amounts. Base oils play a part as well, so it could all be thoughts for naught.
 

alarmguy

Thread starter
Messages
5,157
Location
South Carolina
Thanks for your post. I remember you starting this experiment. I used the Mobil 15-50 exclusively in my TC 88 and was happy with it. But it is a car oil. Isn't your Mystik a truck diesel oil? If you look at the Mobil 20-50 MC oil, it has twice the anti-wear ingredients. I've used the Mobil 1 and Valvoline syn 20-50 in my 14 103. IMO the Valvoline runs a little quieter. I've had UOAs done on both after 5k miles and they are just plain boring to look at. You feel like you've wasted your money.lol
BTW, the 2 mechanics at the indy shop I use told me that the 103 is one of the best engines HD has ever made. They are both near retirement and have been working on Harleys their whole lives. They told me to stay away from the 110's. But you already know how good your engine is.
Correct the Mystik JT8 is a diesel oil. Meaning they recommend it for diesel (up to) CJ4 applications and on the 2 gallon jug it has gas (up to) SL applications. BTW- my 103 HO engine calls for diesel if Harley oil not available. The Mobil doesn't have a diesel recommendation on it.

As far as the Mobil 1 20/50 Motorcycle oil, its not an oil I want to use, has no value in it for me. I do believe they are all good but cant see spending 300% more money for an oil that doesnt meet the specifications (or at least come close) of the people who built my engine and honestly cant see spending that money on an oil I am going to throw out in 3,500 miles or less.
I dont chose by the amount of "anti wear ingredients" I try to follow the manufacturers recommendation or at least close to it and the price to me certainly isnt worth it.
The Mobil 1 15/50 at least has mention of an outdated diesel rating of CD on the website (or did), not close to Harely specs but at least its there.

Glad you posted, you know, I look back at the UOA and think to myself that Mobil 15/50 certainly turned some good numbers, in the same riding conditions, the Mystik numbers are great in themselves and the Mobil 1 15/50 even better. I just bought 4 gallons of JT8 though and I am back to using it, I do use JT8 in our boat as well. Who knows, maybe I will try Mobil 15/50 again someday. even though wear is less, at least what the UOA shows, the engine is more noisy with the full syn vs the semi JT8, not that it should matter but well ... you know ... ? *LOL*

Ahhh... the 103 HO engine on ny Road King. Good god yes! I am glad to read your comment from the mechanics. Its a MAJOR sticking point for me on the new Harleys. The 103 is a mature engine, refined over a number of years.
Riders love their new M8 engines until sadly one of a few have an issue and for some reason HD has not been able to fix some of the issues completely really leaving some people stuck. I dont know but that sucks, that's going back to when they came out in 2017, now here we are in 2021 and Harley changed the entire engine management ECM to another company with completely different firmware, not unusual for them to do just seems weird as they were still getting issues settled.

Anyway, maybe Im getting older? Maybe Im not rich enough? *L* But I dont know, the bike I have is spot on reliable, still hasn't needed a repair, has no issues at all and I just cant bring myself to or wanting to "upgrade" to the same bike again for what must be close to $23,000 or more. We walk in showrooms all the time but nothing gets me going on any of the new models, including the colors, then look at my "old" bike and think, wow I like that bike.

HD prices, maybe I feel I cant pay anymore... I was thinking a complete switch to something like a Concours 14, pick one up new for around $14,000 but doubt any of this will happen ... and keep enjoying the RK... which my wife also wants me to keep because its super comfortable
for her on the back ... photo is Smoky Mountains Gatlinburg TN Trip - Aug 2020 I think this photo we were on our way home, rest stop on the NC border.
I also have a back rest and luggage rack that snaps in, in place of the slimline trunk when not traveling or whatever.

IMG_2853.jpeg
 
Last edited:
Messages
10,783
Location
Jupiter, Florida
the extra additives above and beyond that threshold may not come into play. With that, analysis could show insignificant differences in wear rates between oils with different anti-wear amounts.
Wear rates can only be measured physically, and for most practical tests, require some amazingly careful measurement. I've been involved in such measurement for Mobil Oil. We used a scanning electron microscope and some very serious analysis to determine wear rates of individual surfaces.

UOA results do not indicate component or overall wear rates. I understand that many people, and many companies, correlate higher wear metals with faster engine wear. Yet we continue to experience worn components with stellar UOA results. UOA is a tool, useful for looking for things like big trends, moisture content, additive depletion, particulate count and fuel dilution.
 
Messages
316
Location
New York
UOA is a tool, useful for looking for things like big trends, moisture content, additive depletion, particulate count and fuel dilution.

Yes, but 'UOA as a tool for determining engine wear' is useful for putting money into Blackstone's pocket.
 
Messages
1,398
Location
WV
Correct the Mystik JT8 is a diesel oil. Meaning they recommend it for diesel (up to) CJ4 applications and on the 2 gallon jug it has gas (up to) SL applications. BTW- my 103 HO engine calls for diesel if Harley oil not available. The Mobil doesn't have a diesel recommendation on it.

As far as the Mobil 1 20/50 Motorcycle oil, its not an oil I want to use, has no value in it for me. I do believe they are all good but cant see spending 300% more money for an oil that doesnt meet the specifications (or at least come close) of the people who built my engine and honestly cant see spending that money on an oil I am going to throw out in 3,500 miles or less.
I dont chose by the amount of "anti wear ingredients" I try to follow the manufacturers recommendation or at least close to it and the price to me certainly isnt worth it.
The Mobil 1 15/50 at least has mention of an outdated diesel rating of CD on the website (or did), not close to Harely specs but at least its there.

Glad you posted, you know, I look back at the UOA and think to myself that Mobil 15/50 certainly turned some good numbers, in the same riding conditions, the Mystik numbers are great in themselves and the Mobil 1 15/50 even better. I just bought 4 gallons of JT8 though and I am back to using it, I do use JT8 in our boat as well. Who knows, maybe I will try Mobil 15/50 again someday. even though wear is less, at least what the UOA shows, the engine is more noisy with the full syn vs the semi JT8, not that it should matter but well ... you know ... ? *LOL*

Ahhh... the 103 HO engine on ny Road King. Good god yes! I am glad to read your comment from the mechanics. Its a MAJOR sticking point for me on the new Harleys. The 103 is a mature engine, refined over a number of years.
Riders love their new M8 engines until sadly one of a few have an issue and for some reason HD has not been able to fix some of the issues completely really leaving some people stuck. I dont know but that sucks, that's going back to when they came out in 2017, now here we are in 2021 and Harley changed the entire engine management ECM to another company with completely different firmware, not unusual for them to do just seems weird as they were still getting issues settled.

Anyway, maybe Im getting older? Maybe Im not rich enough? *L* But I dont know, the bike I have is spot on reliable, still hasn't needed a repair, has no issues at all and I just cant bring myself to or wanting to "upgrade" to the same bike again for what must be close to $23,000 or more. We walk in showrooms all the time but nothing gets me going on any of the new models, including the colors, then look at my "old" bike and think, wow I like that bike.

HD prices, maybe I feel I cant pay anymore... I was thinking a complete switch to something like a Concours 14, pick one up new for around $14,000 but doubt any of this will happen ... and keep enjoying the RK... which my wife also wants me to keep because its super comfortable
for her on the back ... photo is Smoky Mountains Gatlinburg TN Trip - Aug 2020 I think this photo we were on our way home, rest stop on the NC border.
I also have a back rest and luggage rack that snaps in, in place of the slimline trunk when not traveling or whatever.

View attachment 55001
If you haven't done a Stage One on it, I highly recommend it. Put a Big Sucker air cleaner on it and new mufflers or have yours drilled out and you will be amazed with the extra power. No need to do anything to the computer. You will have better acceleration and passing response, especially with a passenger. You don't have to get loud pipes. It's like a different bike.
 

alarmguy

Thread starter
Messages
5,157
Location
South Carolina
If you haven't done a Stage One on it, I highly recommend it. Put a Big Sucker air cleaner on it and new mufflers or have yours drilled out and you will be amazed with the extra power. No need to do anything to the computer. You will have better acceleration and passing response, especially with a passenger. You don't have to get loud pipes. It's like a different bike.
I can understand what you are saying but I dont have interest in modifying engines/exhaust ect ... (except I got rid of the CAT years ago)

I paid over 20K for a motorcycle and it better perform well and it does. I also have this thing about keeping things close to stock as I can as I wouldn't buy a used bike with modifications either, any more then I would a car or truck.
With that said, I have no issue with what you say as an enthusiastic, Im just an enthusiastic the other way, keeping something close to original and why I bought this bike, for its comfort and performance. More or less Im not into the Mod thing on any vehicle.

I think original keeps things reliable, we take relatively long trips, up to 6000 ft above sea level, all the way down to 0 sea level.
The bike fully loaded and 2up pulls like an ape, cruises all day long with the cruise control on effortlessly on the interstate @ 80 MPH with much room to spare and rarely ever needing to downshift except on the tallest mountains maybe, if even then. It almost creepy how smooth this bike is, you could literally go any speed you want and it never sounds like it struggles, vibrates or leads to you any feeling that it hit its limit. Then again, I have nor do I care to go faster then 85 MPH again, just like I wouldn't with any vehicle, not worth a ticket.

Also keep in mind the 2014 - 16 Touring bikes came with the 103 H.O. (high output) engine which contains many of the features of previous CVO engines such as cams ... or whatever else so its a pretty strong engine right from the factory. Love it.
 
Messages
1,398
Location
WV
You like to keep things stock...but you remove the Cat?? I still have my Cat and it doesn't bother me at all.
 

alarmguy

Thread starter
Messages
5,157
Location
South Carolina
Removing the cat from a air cooled Harley reduces quite a bit of heat.
I can’t say I noticed a difference in heat, not that there wasn’t but wouldn’t be able to say for sure. Maybe more so we regularly ride in 90 to 100 degree heat and stopped in traffic it gets hot.
This goes for air cooled or water cooled bikes with a 1700 cc engine. In fact we could cook just as much when I had my 1300 Yamaha Vstar water cooled engine. When that radiator fan turned on we got blasted with heat in traffic and it was just as brutal if not more so.
I do have a Lenale engine fan on the Harley for those beach traffic days and just as brutal when I turn it on however rarely that I use it for except for those rare occasions.
What I did notice was it gave the stock exhaust a slightly nicer rumble. It cost me $25 or $30 to do and two hours of my time.
 

FZ1

Messages
4,734
Location
Texas
Well, darn it! 11/6/2020 Mobil1 15/50 - ALL other dates Mystik JT8 15/50 Diesel rated oil
As a one time experiment I tried Mobil1 15w50 as an experiment to see if a full syn would actually run at a lower oil temperature. At first I thought there maybe some reasoning based on other posts I have read but I have not been able to generate that result within any margin of error. Granted, the oil I was testing it against was a semi syn (not a full conventional) Mystik JT8 15/50 Diesel oil which I have been using exclusively until this one time test.
The Mobil 1 is a little off script in Harleys recommendation to use a CH4+ diesel oil if Harley oil is not available (and to switch back once their oil is available.) The Mobil 1 is only mentioned as a CF by Mobil.
I am in shock how low the wear was with the Mobil as the JT8 was already producing low wear numbers, granted I did not get many miles on the oil this summer but still did my run to the Smoky Mountains for a week, two up, loaded with luggage and a couple trips to the beach where the oil really heated up in traffic.
We always do a lot of interstate running 70-80 Mph GPS.
Im almost tempted to continue with Mobil 1 but I just ordered and received another 4 gallons of Mystik JT8 15/50. I did think the engine sounded a little more noisy with the Mobil and was looking forward to going back to the Mystik JT8. But, that is subjective.
The miles are low on the Mobil1 oil and it did shear down a bit for that mileage, my riding time has been limited by a new to us boat that my wife bought last year *L*

View attachment 34245

Also attached below is the full PDF if your having problems viewing the image.
Less motor noise is better. You could the try Mobil 1 20w-50 V Twin MC specific oil.
 

alarmguy

Thread starter
Messages
5,157
Location
South Carolina
I can answer that one... M1 20w50 V-Twin which is a STELLAR oil for me based on my experience, doesn't carry the proper rating diesel rating therefore it will never see the light of day or the dark of his crankcase.
Not only that, but it actually thickens up in non shared sumps. If that happened in any other gas engine it would be accused of oxidizing 🙃
 
Top