Costs too much? It's about $5.90/qt at my Wal-Mart and look at its properties. It takes the GC viscometrics and goes even further with it in at least one aspect. Only 11.8 cst kinematic viscosity for a relatively high 3.66 cP HTHS and a super low pour point of -65F (-54C). Add a hefty additive package on top of that. I don't know of any comparable oil in the world (based on what we know so far), let alone a low priced one. An unknown right now is how the hefty add pack is distributed (how much to extra anti-wear additives and how much extra to detergents).
Mobil claims sludge removal
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Ahh, but Mobil 1 is not warranted for extended oil changes and Amsoil is for up to 25,000 miles. So the cost per mile is much less... And Preferred Customer price is $5.40 a quart by the case of 12 quarts.
BTW, the properties quoted for the Mobil 1 10W30 seem to be for the old API SL oil.
The new API SM oil has these typical properties listed and not nearly as impressive as the obsolete formulation:
Mobil 1 10w30 meets or exceeds the following industry specifications:
ACEA A1, B1, A5,B5
API SM,SL,SJ,EC,CF
ILSAC GF-4
Mobil 1 10w30 has the following builder approvals:
Daimler Chrysler MS-6395
General Motors Service Fill (Corvette) GM 4718M
General Motors Service Fill GM 6094M
Typical Properties
Mobil 1 10w30
SAE Grade 10w30
Viscosity, ASTM D 445
cSt @ 40º C 62
cSt @ 100º C 10.0
Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270 147
Sulfated Ash, wt%, ASTM D 874 1.0
HTHS Viscosity, mPa·s @ 150ºC ASTM D 4683 3.14
Pour Point, ºC, ASTM D 97 -45
Flash Point, ºC, ASTM D 92 224
Density @15º C kg/l, ASTM D 4052 0.86
I think Amsoil easily beats most of these.
The new API SM oil has these typical properties listed and not nearly as impressive as the obsolete formulation:
Mobil 1 10w30 meets or exceeds the following industry specifications:
ACEA A1, B1, A5,B5
API SM,SL,SJ,EC,CF
ILSAC GF-4
Mobil 1 10w30 has the following builder approvals:
Daimler Chrysler MS-6395
General Motors Service Fill (Corvette) GM 4718M
General Motors Service Fill GM 6094M
Typical Properties
Mobil 1 10w30
SAE Grade 10w30
Viscosity, ASTM D 445
cSt @ 40º C 62
cSt @ 100º C 10.0
Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270 147
Sulfated Ash, wt%, ASTM D 874 1.0
HTHS Viscosity, mPa·s @ 150ºC ASTM D 4683 3.14
Pour Point, ºC, ASTM D 97 -45
Flash Point, ºC, ASTM D 92 224
Density @15º C kg/l, ASTM D 4052 0.86
I think Amsoil easily beats most of these.
Gmorg, I confirm with PT1, that frank did say high mileage oils will #@$%! out your seals. So maybe, you could gain some respect for people? or just flame me...
http://www.imageox.com/image/34954-Frank.jpeg
http://www.imageox.com/image/34954-Frank.jpeg
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Patman
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That's not an expensive oil, expensive would be the $32 a quart they charge for Synlube, packaged in old Mobil 1 bottles and using 22 year old technology!
GC viscometrics? Mobil 1 High Mileage 10w30 vs. GC 0w30? 3.66 vs. 3.6 HTHS?
There are 25 posts with the word "seals" that were posted by Frank in the last two years. "Greggy D" and "NO DINO" have both found one of the strongest and have referenced it earlier in this thread. A more official statement can be found at the AutoRX FAQ page. This statement also includes "synthetic" oils in general.
Quote from AutoRX FAQ :
"Q: I've heard that synthetic oil can adversely affect my seals. Does Auto-Rx® help?
A: We believe that high-mileage engines using synthetic/semi-synthetic or high mileage oil weaken the seal material and it loses its pliability."
I personally think that PT1's statement that "AutoRX guys say it (MaxLife) will ruin your engine" has much stronger implications than the quotes above. I will freely grant that some people may not see a difference between the AutoRX position and PT1's. I still think that "are not good" and "will ruin" are very different positions and that putting words into the mouths is not behavior in which to be proud.
There are several BITOGers that have suggested that seal swell may be an issue with some oils. I do not recall anyone claiming that engine destruction was inevitable. Here are some seal-related links in which I have participated.
esters and seals
High Mileage Oils 1
High Mileage Oils 2
Quote from AutoRX FAQ :
"Q: I've heard that synthetic oil can adversely affect my seals. Does Auto-Rx® help?
A: We believe that high-mileage engines using synthetic/semi-synthetic or high mileage oil weaken the seal material and it loses its pliability."
I personally think that PT1's statement that "AutoRX guys say it (MaxLife) will ruin your engine" has much stronger implications than the quotes above. I will freely grant that some people may not see a difference between the AutoRX position and PT1's. I still think that "are not good" and "will ruin" are very different positions and that putting words into the mouths is not behavior in which to be proud.
There are several BITOGers that have suggested that seal swell may be an issue with some oils. I do not recall anyone claiming that engine destruction was inevitable. Here are some seal-related links in which I have participated.
esters and seals
High Mileage Oils 1
High Mileage Oils 2
TimVipond, there is a difference between M1 and M1 High Mileage - it doesn't come in SM, its not de-ZDDP-ified (I claim copyright if anyone else uses that
)
It seems all High Mileage oils are SL rated with beefy add packs.
$5.90/qt is expensive b/c I switched to synthetic that's under $1qt with rebates/sales. I was an M1 only guy, but made the change due to price way before the GIII fiasco. Still I wouldn't mind trying M1 High Mileage if Pep Boys had some more B3G3 coupons.
It seems all High Mileage oils are SL rated with beefy add packs.
$5.90/qt is expensive b/c I switched to synthetic that's under $1qt with rebates/sales. I was an M1 only guy, but made the change due to price way before the GIII fiasco. Still I wouldn't mind trying M1 High Mileage if Pep Boys had some more B3G3 coupons.
Surfstar, I couldn't find the typical properties listed on Mobil's website for M1 High Mileage 10W30. Anyone have a link for that?
I found the link through google.
http://www.exxonmobil.com/pdssearch/search.asp
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/NAXXENPVLMOMobil_1_High_Mileage_Oil.asp
http://www.exxonmobil.com/pdssearch/search.asp
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/NAXXENPVLMOMobil_1_High_Mileage_Oil.asp
Thanks Surfstar.
I agree.
These might be worth a read:
Swelling of Synthetic Rubber in Mineral Oils
Typical Elastomer Compatibility of Esters (see pg. 2)
Rubber Seal Swell Test
Tim please explain the 25,000 mile warranty on Amsoil. What does it mean?
My oil removes sludge every time I do a drain.
SO I do it more often than not.
Typical OCI - 3/4.5/6K for dino/blend/synth.
SO I do it more often than not.
Typical OCI - 3/4.5/6K for dino/blend/synth.
Steve - basically for the past 35 years Amsoil has said they will pay for parts or labor should their product fail. The 25,000 mile/1 year is for normal nonsevere driving. 15,000 miles/1 year is for severe miles such as excessive idling, commercial use, dirt roads, towing, short trips. You can read the warranty info at http://www.amsoil.com/warranty.aspx . You can read about product recommendations and change intervals for their many products at http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g1490.pdf . If you get on their website and read about their individual products, the warranty and change intervals are often mentioned. Hope this helps.
Tim where in the warranty is {The 25,000 mile/1 year is for normal nonsevere driving. 15,000 miles/1 year is for severe miles such as excessive idling, commercial use, dirt roads, towing, short trips.} Stated it the warranty?
It seems to me that the CJ-4 oils have a little something special in them, as do some other recent oils. I can notice the difference in the carbon local to the PCV valve in one of my carbureted engines, and have seen some carbon particles in the oil filter. Previous RTS and Syntecs seem to have the metal cleaning ability as well in my experience.
Here. "AMSOIL INC. of Superior, Wisconsin hereby warrants that its lubricants are fit for use according to the written recommendations of AMSOIL INC. and in applications specifying one or more of the standards set forth in the product data bulletins and product labels. AMSOIL INC. further warrants its products to be free of defective materials, design, and workmanship."
Because AMSOIL makes over 25 motor oils and many have individual recommendations based on the oil and the application, you have to do as they state and check the product data bulletins and labels.
If you have a specific vehicle and/or product in mind, I will gladly provide you the link to the individual product change interval warranty.
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