Mobil 1R PDS Sheet

[buster]

Mobil 1 R

Well, it looks simply like a highly additzed M1 0w-30. Not trying to make excuses here, but maybe HT/HS is not as important as we think. It's not hard to make a 3.5> oil as it simply relates to viscosity @ 100C and Mobil's other oils are more shear stable. I think with this oil, the focus is on HP gains.

 

[buster]

Does a 2.99 HT/HS qualify as "outstanding" shear stability?

I do think though that from UOA's, regardless of this spec., Mobil has shown to be every bit as shear stable with other oils such as Ams/RL with higher HT/HS. Doesn't make sense though. I posted this early this morning and no hits. I thought people would be all over this one.

Rather disapointing though I guess.

[ February 23, 2004, 05:53 PM: Message edited by: buster ]

 

[MolaKule]

HTHS measurements are based upon viscosity, type of base oil, and additive complement, especially sensitive to the type and quality of VI if used, with base oil viscosity having the major influence.

As I wrote in an earlier QOTD thread on HTHS, the HTHS is SUPPOSED to correlate better with actual wear seen in fleet operation.

Now if you have an HTHS of 3.0, but the oil formulation has a load of AW and FM adds that reduce wear and friction, then this oil might show lower actual wear numbers than one with a 3.3 HTHS, since the HTHS test only shears the oil.

The HTHS test does not measure actual friction or wear, but measures only the amount of actual oil shearing.


Had I been EM, I think I would have used slightly thick(er) base oils to bump up the HTHS to at least match the M1 SS daily driver stuff. It's still better than the old SS formulation of 9.8 cSt.

[ February 23, 2004, 06:14 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]

 

[pruizgarcia]

The typical properties are exactly the same as for their regular M1 0w30. What is up with that. Is the boosted levels of anti-wear protection they are claiming in the M1 R that much better than the M1 SS?

Pedro

 

[TooSlick]

The level of sulphated ash is the same as regular MObil 1, so the TBN will also be extremely close, ie 11-12. All the other viscometric properties are the same, so it's the VI basestock blend as the garden variety stuff, which makes sense. So this would be an ACEA A5/B5 type oil and not A3/B4, since the HT/HS is < 3.5 Cp ....Not too surprising, since thinner oils give you more power in racing applications.

It's basically Mobil 1, 0w-30 with 80% more ZDDP, and addresses the mutually exclusive goals of maximizing valvetrain protection under high pressures AND having an API licensed formulation.

 

[G-MAN]

I am convinced now more than ever that this is nothing more than regular Mobil 1 0w30 with more ZDDP in it.

As for this being the actual oil used by racers in their engines...

 

[JohnBrowning]

Well, It is above my HTHS 2.6-2.9 limit! I found it funny that their M1R has a HTHS of 2.9 while Redlines 5W20 has an HTHS of 3! The worst case senerio is that the car does not like it and has a bit more wear. I think it is going to be fun to compare how an oil with an HTHS of 2.99 is going to compare to an oil that has an HTHS of 4.5-4.7!!!

I have a case of this oil on it's way right now. I think that my Toyota will be a fair test for it. When you combine my RPM's, high heat and agressive driveing style this oil is going to have it's hands full! If it begins to consume oil with this oil in it I will deem the test a failure! To date the car has only used 1/3 of quart on it's first run with synthetic in 5000+ miles on this oil change! In the 10,000 plus total miles on the odometer the total oil consumption has been 1/3 of a quart total!

 

[buster]

I have no problem believing it's used in NASCAR for qualifying runs and then they shift to a 50wt maybe. I don't think these guys run 500 laps on a 10.3 cSt oil.

Like Molekule said, what we've seen with the lighter oils are extra additives. Look at Mobil 1 0w-20 putting up outstanding UOA's yet it only is a 2.6 HT/HS.

I would have much rather seen a A3 rated oil. Redline looks more appealing everyday.

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

---

Originally posted by buster:
I have no problem believing it's used in NASCAR for qualifying runs and then they shift to a 50wt maybe. I don't think these guys run 500 laps on a 10.3 cSt oil.

---

That's what I meant. I can see this being used as a qualifying oil, but not during the race.

 

[buster]

The proof will be in the UOA's I guess. Right now Mobil 1 doesn't shear at all so it will be interesting to see some UOA's with the M1R. I want someone to run this in some track racing. Mobil is claiming the has "outstanding shear stability".

So with Mobil 1, you have NO A3 30wt options. Only the 5w-40, 0w-40 and 15w-50 meet the A3 rating.

 

[Jelly]

Maybe I should move into the fortune teller buisness, but this is what I said 0w-30R was going to be back when only the MSDS were out...they showed both oils being the essentially the same, but with the "R" oil having a much higher ZDDP treatment level.

Some here simply chalked it up to 0w-30R being new on the market and that the MSDS were wrong, but turns out they were right.

I mean, if you're looking for a low-viscosity oil that won't cause very-high wear levels under hard-driving, then I guess you have your oil.

Honestly, I feel there are much better choices out there...I'll take higher HTHS numbers as well as a thicker viscosity.

 

[Last_Z]

quote:

---

Originally posted by buster:
I have no problem believing it's used in NASCAR for qualifying runs and then they shift to a 50wt maybe. I don't think these guys run 500 laps on a 10.3 cSt oil.

Like Molekule said, what we've seen with the lighter oils are extra additives. Look at Mobil 1 0w-20 putting up outstanding UOA's yet it only is a 2.6 HT/HS.

I would have much rather seen a A3 rated oil. Redline looks more appealing everyday.

---

Well, I'm no oil guru (and I don't need to be), but I really had a hard time believing this oil, which is now available to Joe Q. Public, was "EXACTLY" the same oil run by the big dogs at NASCAR. Terry's post where he showed us a racing oil's UOA looked much more like it. I'm willing to bet my reproductive system (

) that the NASCAR guys run very tricked out and HIGHLY secretive oil formulations. They are very carefull not to give away their shock, camshaft, gear ratio and maybe even tire air pressure specs (among others), why would oil formulations be any different....considering that at 9000+ RPMs, oil DOES make a difference....not only in protection, but also horsepower, fuel mileage and elapsed time. In fact, I think they covered this a few years back on "NASCAR Garage", where the guy was saying they may use a given company's base stock, but the oil is custom blended to their specs.

I have no doubt, that for qualifying, a very light oil is used to gain the extra thousand of a second in order to get that desired pole position. Qualifying engines ARE NOT the raceday engines, so all they need is a light oil for a few laps.

My guess is that the endorsement that was given to this oil by that NASCAR driver, is nothing more than an endorsement from someone being sponsored and/or paid by Mobil.

Ultimately, UOAs will tell the tale!

 

[Last_Z]

One last thing! If I had to guess, I say that the viscosity run in a NASCAR engine on "Race Day" is at least a very thick 40W......most likely a 50W. Those engines run extremely hard and extremely hot. I'm guessing they would also account for debris blocking air to the radiator and oil cooler (which happens ALL the time), therefore raising temperatures well above what the oil should be exposed to. With that said and judging by Red Line's Viscosity versus Temperature chart, anything thinner than a 40W would just vaporize, despite the large sump capacities.
In fact, it makes me wonder if they run a POE oil such as Red Line, since they have better thermal characteristics versus PAO.
Food for thought!!

 

[speedybenz]

I don't know why some of you have such a hard time believing NASCAR uses a 30wt oil to run races with. They certainly would not run this in a Q engine. In a Q engine it would be 5-10wt oil.

But in case you have not kept up on the NASCAR rules, they are only allowed one engine for the whole weekend, or they are forced to go to the back of the pack.

I would bet my left nut they ARE running 30wt and most likely 20wt oils for the current raceday engines.

In our AMA Superbike engines which turned up to 16,000 rpm we ran nothing thicker than 30wt oils and 10wts for Q.

Jeff
Former AMA PRO #97
AFM Superbike Champion 1998&1999

 

[Mobil2]

quote:

---

Originally posted by buster:
I have no problem believing it's used in NASCAR for qualifying runs and then they shift to a 50wt maybe. I don't think these guys run 500 laps on a 10.3 cSt oil.

---

Since these engines don't need to last 10 years it might not be a big consideration.

If anything this oil will thicken after use and their is not a direct correlation between oil weight and it's ability to protect.

Having said this, I'm so unimpressed with these M1R specs and my current burn with regular M1, I'm crossing over to Amsoil. Oddly, it will be cheaper and easier to find too!

 

[quick_16]

The BB desperately needs a dedicated area for race oil discussions, so as to attract real racers as opposed to ones that can only assume what's going on. Having this buried in a Car and Truck Eng oil area is a waste.

There I said it, now I'm positive that my request (for a race area) I made a week ago to one of the board ops. is doomed.

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

---

Originally posted by speedybenz:
I would bet my left nut they ARE running 30wt and most likely 20wt oils for the current raceday engines.

---

Left nut notwithstanding, they may very well be running a 20wt or 30wt—I just don't believe it's this OTC Mobil 1R 0w30. If you note in the PDS, nowhere does it say that this oil is used by any racing team, which is unlike the way the 15w50 used to be advertised when it was stated explicitly that this grade of Mobil 1 was used by team Penske at Indy.

 

[TooSlick]

There were NASCAR teams running qualifying laps with the Series 2000, 0w-30 when it first appeared back in 1995. I have no trouble believing they are running the M-1R and even 0w-20 oils like the Synergyn product in the actual races these days.

Bearing wear can be controlled by adequate oil pressure - regardless of oil viscosity

Valvetrain wear is largely a function of the additive chemistry and not the viscosity - hence the 2000 ppm of ZDP

You will probably lose an engine from time to time, but no one can afford to give up the 5-10 Hp you gain at the top end by running 0w-30 instead of 20w-50. Might as well be towing a fifth wheel if you go into the race with that kind of handicap. Once someone showed you could run 500 miles on 0w-30 or 0w-20 and keep the engine together, I'm sure almost everyone switched.

Folks looking for better valvetrain protection will certainly find it with this oil, along with improved oxidation resistance. I'd like to see someone run the M-1R in the 3.0L, Toyota V-6 for say 10,000 miles and then get it tested. Thats your benchmark these days ....

TS

 

[jsharp]

It might take a year, but I'll try this in my 3.4L Toyota after I do another run of German Castrol and we can compare. We'll be able to look at GC, Mobil 1 5W-30 and M1 5W-30 with some #132, and the M1R in the same engine with the same driving conditions. If a 7500 mile run looks good I'll try it for 10K miles...