*Mobil 1 - PAO & Visom

[ARCOgraphite]

As usuall too much speculation and rumor and NO scientific or logical method disppayed by most BITOGers. Shame

I'm doing this by memory - and we know how good that is these days

1) The korean MSDS showed the 0w-40 to be majority group III+ base stock. I didnt think EoM were sourcing it through Shell, so we can now guess it was VISOM.
2) IIRC the tri-syn formula was PAO/AN/POE per the Korean MSDS
3) PAO has good high temp performance and superior low temp pumpability. It's the POE and diesters that have great high temp properties. As its been said jets would be falling out of the sky without POE lube. Want some? Buy some AC compressor ESTER 100 oil.
4) 100% synthetic blends can use POE and An to solubilise the additisation pack.

We now return you to our Feature Presentation ...

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL

StevieC:
I don't think I saw anywhere in that article that stated the oil was MAJORITY Group III+. They saying they are blending Group III+ with PAO. At what percentage I'm sure varies oil to oil, but to broad-brush and state that they are all "majority" Group III is a bit of a reach without any actual data.


I think it is safe to say that it's a large part GRP-III with little PAO considering how the article was written, and the fact that other oils like Pennzoil Platinum are doing things with their additive package. Also XOM has always been a huge profit driven company so IMO that makes them even more likely to skimp on things like base-stock where possible and supplement with additives to make up the difference so the performance doesn't suffer.



And Amsoil,Redline, et al are all non-profits?

 

[Steve S]

I am happy with a high quality GP III oil just so it isn't priced like a GPIV oil.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl


And Amsoil,Redline, et al are all non-profits?

Yes they are but much smaller segment of the market so IMO they have to offer a better product in order to compete by claiming an advantage.

And unlike M1 until now, were always forthcoming about what base-stocks were used.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted By: Steve S
I am happy with a high quality GP III oil just so it isn't priced like a GPIV oil.
+1

And M1 is priced like a GP-IV up here and that is why I have a problem with it.

 

[Spyder7]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: Steve S
I am happy with a high quality GP III oil just so it isn't priced like a GPIV oil.
+1

And M1 is priced like a GP-IV up here and that is why I have a problem with it.


Yes, but its not just any old GP-III. Its GP-III+ Visom

Its the Visom that makes it special.

-Spyder

 

[StevieC]

Still not paying premium $$$ for it when I can have Amsoil or Redline shipped to my door for not that much more and know I'm getting PAO or GRP-V Ester based oils that I know don't show high Iron on a used oil analysis whether that is important or not.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
And M1 is priced like a GP-IV up here and that is why I have a problem with it.

No, it's not. It's priced like a high performance oil.

 

[Drew99GT]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
If anything, from what I've read, group III+ oils have a lot of advantages over PAO, such as solvency like Buster pointed out. The only area they can't compete with PAO is pour point, and it shows in the Mobil 1 data sheets.

I thought PAOs also tend to have a tiny edge in terms of resistance to breakdown at the highest temperatures. No?


Agreed, but these new group III+s are right there. Shell's group III+ meets CJ-4 for diesel engine turbocharger protection, just like Mobil 1 and Pennzoil Platinum meet Honda's high temp turbocharger test.

 

[Spyder7]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
Still not paying premium $$$ for it when I can have Amsoil or Redline shipped to my door for not that much more and know I'm getting PAO or GRP-V Ester based oils that I know don't show high Iron on a used oil analysis whether that is important or not.

Neither am I. I can get PP for less than half of what Mobil is going for, for even their cheapest syn here. Or Syntec for more than $10 a jug less. But I hadn't seen the justification to pay their premium even before this new admission from them. So to me the revelation isn't that relevant I guess.

I liked the translation another poster did on their marketing jargon for this new revelation. He summed it up well (and I'm not paying the extra for a fancy acronym thought up by some shill in marketing).

-Spyder

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: StevieC
And M1 is priced like a GP-IV up here and that is why I have a problem with it.

No, it's not. It's priced like a high performance oil.
Maybe in PA but not in Canada...

 

[StevieC]

I picked up a jug of Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0w30 (5 Quarts) for a BITOG member here who wanted it last time I was in buffalo and it was $21.00 Here in Canada if we carried it, it would be like $50 like their other oils.

$21 I would be using M1, $50 I will use Amsoil for $55 instead.

But then again if M1 was $21 that would make Pennzoil Plat/Ultra cheaper so I would use that instead probably.

 

[d00df00d]

You missed my point. I'm saying it's priced for its performance, not its contents.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
You missed my point. I'm saying it's priced for its performance, not its contents.
Oh sorry I see what you meant now... Yeah but I'm not bought off with their Marketing and their performance on a used oil analysis isn't stellar compared to other cheaper oils and that is what we all have to go by because this newer formulation hasn't been out long enough to be proven and I don't want to pay $50/jug only to find out that I should have listened to my used oil analysis and its high iron content or whatever when I could have paid a few bucks more per OC and spared my engine for many more miles.

Their formulation is too new and hasn't been out long enough and we can't go by the "Well I have always used M1 so it must be good" either because now the formula is different.

 

[Spyder7]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
You missed my point. I'm saying it's priced for its performance, not its contents.


By performance do you mean iron - that's the only major difference we're left with when you compare its used oil analysis against other GP-III oils.

Maybe 'VISOM' is a fancy word for iron thought up by their PR dept.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
Still not paying premium $$$ for it when I can have Amsoil or Redline shipped to my door for not that much more and know I'm getting PAO or GRP-V Ester based oils that I know don't show high Iron on a used oil analysis whether that is important or not.

Have you really priced it? Excluding shipping it would cost me $11 more to buy Amsoil(One 5 liter + 3 quarts) over M1 (8 quarts). Shipping would add another $10-$15? I don't know if I'd pay $25 more for an oil which may meet the performance demands of my engine simply due to the base stock?

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
You missed my point. I'm saying it's priced for its performance, not its contents.
Oh sorry I see what you meant now...


Yeah. Me too.

You can always use that statement as a consolation that you paid the same ..when it was cheaper to make

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl

Still not paying premium $$$ for it when I can have Amsoil or Redline shipped to my door for not that much more and know I'm getting PAO or GRP-V Ester based oils that I know don't show high Iron on a used oil analysis whether that is important or not.

Have you really priced it? Excluding shipping it would cost me $11 more to buy Amsoil(One 5 liter + 3 quarts) over M1 (8 quarts). Shipping would add another $10-$15? I don't know if I'd pay $25 more for an oil which may meet the performance demands of my engine simply because it has a 'superior' base stock?

 

[StevieC]

It's different for you because you can get good oil for cheap off the shelf it's not the same up here in Canada.

Did you read my previous posts?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Spyder7
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
You missed my point. I'm saying it's priced for its performance, not its contents.


By performance do you mean iron - that's the only major difference we're left with when you compare its used oil analysis against other GP-III oils.

Maybe 'VISOM' is a fancy word for iron thought up by their PR dept.

Inexpensive used oil analysis are not a good way to determine an oil's "wear" characteristics, since the particle size window sampled is VERY narrow.

Much better tool to watch for contamination, oil life, impending doom....etc. And that's what it was designed for.