So now one wonders if they consider the entire Mobil 1 line a flagship formulation or just the EP. To be fair, I really don't care what they put in it so long as it continues to function as well for me as it has in the past.
*Mobil 1 - PAO & Visom
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Originally Posted By: stenerson
and royal purple?
As I understood it, it was mainly GRP-III with PAO added. I also don't have a lot of experience with RP products and reviews here are a mixed bag.
IMO they are overpriced for the performance you get and rely heavily on people liking their marketing and purple colour.
and royal purple?
As I understood it, it was mainly GRP-III with PAO added. I also don't have a lot of experience with RP products and reviews here are a mixed bag.
IMO they are overpriced for the performance you get and rely heavily on people liking their marketing and purple colour.
Originally Posted By: buster
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Amsoil and Redline look like the best choices for people looking for quality Basestock oils now...
C'mon don't start that nonsense now. You don't know what Amsoil is using and you just said it's not all about the base oils. Get over it.
Amsoil is clear if you ask them about using PAO ask the sponsors here and they will even tell you.
As for Redline they are clear that they are GRP-V with some GRP-IV.
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Amsoil and Redline look like the best choices for people looking for quality Basestock oils now...
C'mon don't start that nonsense now. You don't know what Amsoil is using and you just said it's not all about the base oils. Get over it.
Amsoil is clear if you ask them about using PAO ask the sponsors here and they will even tell you.
As for Redline they are clear that they are GRP-V with some GRP-IV.
Originally Posted By: apwillard1986
So now one wonders if they consider the entire Mobil 1 line a flagship formulation or just the EP. To be fair, I really don't care what they put in it so long as it continues to function as well for me as it has in the past.
That is the attitude people should take. I could careless what an oil is made from so long as it performs the way I want/expect.
So now one wonders if they consider the entire Mobil 1 line a flagship formulation or just the EP. To be fair, I really don't care what they put in it so long as it continues to function as well for me as it has in the past.
That is the attitude people should take. I could careless what an oil is made from so long as it performs the way I want/expect.
Amen Johnny.
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: buster
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Amsoil and Redline look like the best choices for people looking for quality Basestock oils now...
C'mon don't start that nonsense now. You don't know what Amsoil is using and you just said it's not all about the base oils. Get over it.
Amsoil is clear if you ask them about using PAO ask the sponsors here and they will even tell you.
As for Redline they are clear that they are GRP-V with some GRP-IV.
EDIT: I'm not saying there is any performance differences, just the people that are caught up in wanting a GRP-IV or V base-stock need to look to Amsoil or Redline now.
Originally Posted By: buster
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Amsoil and Redline look like the best choices for people looking for quality Basestock oils now...
C'mon don't start that nonsense now. You don't know what Amsoil is using and you just said it's not all about the base oils. Get over it.
Amsoil is clear if you ask them about using PAO ask the sponsors here and they will even tell you.
As for Redline they are clear that they are GRP-V with some GRP-IV.
EDIT: I'm not saying there is any performance differences, just the people that are caught up in wanting a GRP-IV or V base-stock need to look to Amsoil or Redline now.
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Amsoil and Redline look like the best choices for people looking for quality Basestock oils now...
That might be true for now, but this remark in the article probably contains the most truth, and might mean that a lot of our favorite boutique oils might be changing down the road. Time will tell.
Quote: As PAO supply has tightened globally, raw material costs have increased substantially. In the future, an exclusively PAO formulation may be priced out of the market or result in significant margin erosion.
Keep in mind even Amsoil and Redline are concerned with profits first. Prices can only go so high before people start looking elsewhere, or companies are forced to change. Just stating my opnion nothing more.
Amsoil and Redline look like the best choices for people looking for quality Basestock oils now...
That might be true for now, but this remark in the article probably contains the most truth, and might mean that a lot of our favorite boutique oils might be changing down the road. Time will tell.
Quote: As PAO supply has tightened globally, raw material costs have increased substantially. In the future, an exclusively PAO formulation may be priced out of the market or result in significant margin erosion.
Keep in mind even Amsoil and Redline are concerned with profits first. Prices can only go so high before people start looking elsewhere, or companies are forced to change. Just stating my opnion nothing more.
I personally am using a GRP-V oil made from Canola oil with GRP-III content in it. It is giving me the best bang for my buck and the best performance on used oil analysis.
Global PAO capacity is limited. As we quickly approach this limit, new base stocks must be explored to ensure we can support the continued growth of the Mobil 1 family of products.
Why are global PAO stocks so limited? It's a man-made product so we should be able to make more, right?
I believe this is all about MONEY.
I'm sure Visom and other Group 3 basestocks are excellent . PAO is also excellent but it costs more to produce.
Why are global PAO stocks so limited? It's a man-made product so we should be able to make more, right?
I believe this is all about MONEY.
I'm sure Visom and other Group 3 basestocks are excellent . PAO is also excellent but it costs more to produce.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Amsoil and Redline look like the best choices for people looking for quality Basestock oils now...
That might be true for now, but this remark in the article probably contains the most truth, and might mean that a lot of our favorite boutique oils might be changing down the road. Time will tell.
Quote: As PAO supply has tightened globally, raw material costs have increased substantially. In the future, an exclusively PAO formulation may be priced out of the market or result in significant margin erosion.
Keep in mind even Amsoil and Redline are concerned with profits first. Prices can only go so high before people start looking elsewhere, or companies are forced to change. Just stating my opnion nothing more.
Keep in mind that Amsoil and Redline are way smaller segments of the market and when companies like XOM stop using so much PAO there will be more available to the smaller people like Amsoil/Redline or the demand from huge companies like XOM will decrease so it will balance out and they can continue using it as they have always done IMO.
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Amsoil and Redline look like the best choices for people looking for quality Basestock oils now...
That might be true for now, but this remark in the article probably contains the most truth, and might mean that a lot of our favorite boutique oils might be changing down the road. Time will tell.
Quote: As PAO supply has tightened globally, raw material costs have increased substantially. In the future, an exclusively PAO formulation may be priced out of the market or result in significant margin erosion.
Keep in mind even Amsoil and Redline are concerned with profits first. Prices can only go so high before people start looking elsewhere, or companies are forced to change. Just stating my opnion nothing more.
Keep in mind that Amsoil and Redline are way smaller segments of the market and when companies like XOM stop using so much PAO there will be more available to the smaller people like Amsoil/Redline or the demand from huge companies like XOM will decrease so it will balance out and they can continue using it as they have always done IMO.
On another note - this is precisely why I hang out on this forum. But (to be quite honest) I don't know if I really care that Brand X is formulated with unobtainable. I want to see the results.
How many of were downright astonished to find out that Pennzoil Platinum was that great oil that it is?
.... and the list goes on and on and on.
Sometimes - the "recipe" in real world applications performs better than the sum of the parts (on paper).
Many of us are hung up on the idea that more PAO is better. That still may be true - but I am not as convinced as I once was.
How many of were downright astonished to find out that Pennzoil Platinum was that great oil that it is?
.... and the list goes on and on and on.
Sometimes - the "recipe" in real world applications performs better than the sum of the parts (on paper).
Many of us are hung up on the idea that more PAO is better. That still may be true - but I am not as convinced as I once was.
Originally Posted By: pbm
Why are global PAO stocks so limited? It's a man-made product so we should be able to make more, right?
I believe this is all about MONEY.
Good question. Maybe higher prices higher demand for veggie oils due to use in energy production?
Why are global PAO stocks so limited? It's a man-made product so we should be able to make more, right?
I believe this is all about MONEY.
Good question. Maybe higher prices higher demand for veggie oils due to use in energy production?
I think the quality of basestocks are leaps/bounds better than they used to be just a few years ago and that added to great additive packages provided by years of research makes great oils that don't need hard to obtain PAO's any more.
Pennzoil Platinum is a great example of this!
Pennzoil Platinum is a great example of this!
Exactly, technology will always move forward.
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Amsoil and Redline look like the best choices for people looking for quality Basestock oils now...
That might be true for now, but this remark in the article probably contains the most truth, and might mean that a lot of our favorite boutique oils might be changing down the road. Time will tell.
Quote: As PAO supply has tightened globally, raw material costs have increased substantially. In the future, an exclusively PAO formulation may be priced out of the market or result in significant margin erosion.
Keep in mind even Amsoil and Redline are concerned with profits first. Prices can only go so high before people start looking elsewhere, or companies are forced to change. Just stating my opnion nothing more.
Keep in mind that Amsoil and Redline are way smaller segments of the market and when companies like XOM stop using so much PAO there will be more available to the smaller people like Amsoil/Redline or the demand from huge companies like XOM will decrease so it will balance out and they can continue using it as they have always done IMO.
Maybe, a big maybe. Seems to me motor oil prices in general only move in one direction lately, that's up. Time will tell, and if formulas change it will be a big secret anyway.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Amsoil and Redline look like the best choices for people looking for quality Basestock oils now...
That might be true for now, but this remark in the article probably contains the most truth, and might mean that a lot of our favorite boutique oils might be changing down the road. Time will tell.
Quote: As PAO supply has tightened globally, raw material costs have increased substantially. In the future, an exclusively PAO formulation may be priced out of the market or result in significant margin erosion.
Keep in mind even Amsoil and Redline are concerned with profits first. Prices can only go so high before people start looking elsewhere, or companies are forced to change. Just stating my opnion nothing more.
Keep in mind that Amsoil and Redline are way smaller segments of the market and when companies like XOM stop using so much PAO there will be more available to the smaller people like Amsoil/Redline or the demand from huge companies like XOM will decrease so it will balance out and they can continue using it as they have always done IMO.
Maybe, a big maybe. Seems to me motor oil prices in general only move in one direction lately, that's up. Time will tell, and if formulas change it will be a big secret anyway.
If formulas change who cares so long as my used oil analysis don't change to indicate more wear with the trend data I have already.
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I did a TON of searching through the uoa`s here the other night (blank out the date range in the serch criteria,and put your specific search words in quotations and the search feature here works perfectly) and M1 isn`t what I noticed producing high iron,it seems to be car maker specific no matter what oils are used. I found uoa`s with M1 in the tens of thousand mile range producing single digit iron readings,while there were dinos producing double digit iron numbers in less than 3000 mile intervals.
Toyota and Honda engines were showing perfect uoa`s using M1 for really long intervals. Here`s one that blew my mind:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/posts/249928/
So maybe certain engines shed more iron,and it`s not the oil`s fault but the particular engines?
Toyota and Honda engines were showing perfect uoa`s using M1 for really long intervals. Here`s one that blew my mind:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/posts/249928/
So maybe certain engines shed more iron,and it`s not the oil`s fault but the particular engines?
I keep hearing this term "man made" thrown around concerning PAO. To an extent that is true, but it still comes from crude oil and natural gas. Thank Chevron for the invention of hydrocracking where a refinery process can make a base stock that will almost equal a PAO.
Originally Posted By: pbm
Why are global PAO stocks so limited? It's a man-made product so we should be able to make more, right?
I believe this is all about MONEY.
If PAO is more expensive and performs no better than the alternative in 99% of cases, no company in their right mind would use it unless they absolutely have to. That means demand will dwindle, which means supply will dwindle. Saying "global PAO supply is limited" might be marketing speak, but it still reflects a reality.
Why are global PAO stocks so limited? It's a man-made product so we should be able to make more, right?
I believe this is all about MONEY.
If PAO is more expensive and performs no better than the alternative in 99% of cases, no company in their right mind would use it unless they absolutely have to. That means demand will dwindle, which means supply will dwindle. Saying "global PAO supply is limited" might be marketing speak, but it still reflects a reality.
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