Mobil 1 in Japan - PAO content

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Mark888

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I found this interesting spec sheet for Mobil 1 in Japan. I can't tell if it is the same as US Mobil 1, or if it is M1 EP (I think it is the former but not sure). I don't think it is ESP because many of those grades are not available in ESP in other countries.

One thing it shows is that the only 100% PAO Mobil 1 in Japan is the 0W-40. All the others are a blend of PAO and hydro-craked (or Catalytically Processed as they call it). This was always what I understood based on FAQ on Mobil 1 website where they avoid the 100% question, but say it has PAO.

My guess is also that M1 EP has more PAO than regular M1 but not 100% (Mobil says EP has 50% more SuperSyn than regular M1), and that ESP sold in EU and Mercedes dealers in US is 100% PAO.
http://www.mobil1.jp/products/pdf/SuperSyn2005_high.pdf
 
Nice link. I've kinda lost interest in the PAO Vs. Grp. III question for my own cars--no HP engines, just a torqueless economy SOHC and a Spitfire fill-in-the-gaps engine. I'll admit that a "Rising Dragon Ascension 0w-40 has 16x better wear protection than Mobil 1 5w-30" would perk my interest right up.
 
Originally Posted By: crinkles
too bad you're in the US

Why is that? I think I missed something.

We can get ESP in US at a VW or Mercedes Dealer, or via internet order, but it is not cheap. But I just bought 5 quarts of M1 EP and a M1 filter for USA $30. Every-day price for M1 5-quart jug is $26 at Walmart ($28.50 for 5-quart jug of EP).

How 'bout them apples!!
 
Originally Posted By: tropic
I'll admit that a "Rising Dragon Ascension 0w-40 has 16x better wear protection than Mobil 1 5w-30" would perk my interest right up.

Personally, I don't think there is a big difference between an oil with 30-50% PAO and 100% PAO for most drivers that change oil within 7500 miles (the max for most new car warranties in the US). And whatever differences do exist are probably even smaller in terms of wear protection.
 
Originally Posted By: toyota62
oils are dam cheap in US compared to Oz.

So is gas. Average price for regular grade is about USD $1.95 per gallon where I live (varies by state because each state has different taxes).
 
Originally Posted By: toyota62
oils are dam cheap in US compared to Oz.
It's a question of how much the government thinks it's worth to live under their dominion. So, have you been taxed into paradise yet?
LOL.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Mark888
Originally Posted By: toyota62
oils are dam cheap in US compared to Oz.

So is gas. Average price for regular grade is about USD $1.95 per gallon where I live (varies by state because each state has different taxes).
Heck, it varies by the corner...
 
Originally Posted By: rshunter
Heck, it varies by the corner...

Well, yes, but I mean varies a lot by state. Right now the high is $2.25 in California and low is $1.75 in Wyoming (not counting Alaska and Hawaii which are about $2.50 due to cost of living there).
 
Originally Posted By: Mark888
Originally Posted By: rshunter
Heck, it varies by the corner...

Well, yes, but I mean varies a lot by state. Right now the high is $2.25 in California and low is $1.75 in Wyoming (not counting Alaska and Hawaii which are about $2.50 due to cost of living there).
True, you typically have statewide average prices that vary by a significant percentage margin. Across such great distances it's not that surprising. The ridiculous thing is that I've seen price differences as large as the CA and WY averages within blocks of each other. WTH is up with that?
 
Originally Posted By: Mark888
Originally Posted By: crinkles
too bad you're in the US

Why is that? I think I missed something.

We can get ESP in US at a VW or Mercedes Dealer, or via internet order, but it is not cheap. But I just bought 5 quarts of M1 EP and a M1 filter for USA $30. Every-day price for M1 5-quart jug is $26 at Walmart ($28.50 for 5-quart jug of EP).

How 'bout them apples!!


them apples are good!

i am jealous of your cheap oil
 
That document says 2005. More recent Japanese Mobil 1 documents show something different. Cut and pasted from here: Link
___________________________________________________

0W-40 – Revised Dec 31, 2008
KEROSENE...0.1-1 %weight...What the
SLACK WAX (PETROLEUM), HYDROTREATED...50-60 %weight
Mineral Oil...5-10 %weight
_____________________________________________________
5W-40 – Revised Nov 6, 2007
Mineral Oil...30-40 %weight
_____________________________________________________
0W-30 – Revised Nov 7, 2007
Mineral Oil...10-20 %weight
_____________________________________________________
5W-30 – Revised Nov 14, 2007
Mineral Oil...40-50 %weight
_____________________________________________________
10W-30 – Revised Dec 21, 2007
Mineral Oil...50-60 %weight
 
don't know why, but the US page of Mobil1 5w30 does not state it meets OEM specs (like Ford, DC, GM etc), it's not in the product sheet either.
While on the Japanese site, it does state that. Are we getting different oils?
 
Originally Posted By: rshunter
True, you typically have statewide average prices that vary by a significant percentage margin. Across such great distances it's not that surprising. The ridiculous thing is that I've seen price differences as large as the CA and WY averages within blocks of each other. WTH is up with that?

The numbers I gave are state-wide averages. The differences (as I mentioned above) have to do with state and local taxes.

Just looking at federal and state taxes (excluding local taxes), the average tax burden per gallon varies from about 32 cents per gallon to about 63 cents per gallon. Some localities (city or county) charge additional taxes.

Obviously, there are additional variations in price besides taxes, such as the cost of real estate, etc. A gas station in Manhattan (NYC) is going to cost a lot more than one in Casper Wyoming.
 
Originally Posted By: JAG
That document says 2005. More recent Japanese Mobil 1 documents show something different. Cut and pasted from here: Link
___________________________________________________

0W-40 – Revised Dec 31, 2008
KEROSENE...0.1-1 %weight...What the
SLACK WAX (PETROLEUM), HYDROTREATED...50-60 %weight
Mineral Oil...5-10 %weight
_____________________________________________________
5W-40 – Revised Nov 6, 2007
Mineral Oil...30-40 %weight
_____________________________________________________
0W-30 – Revised Nov 7, 2007
Mineral Oil...10-20 %weight
_____________________________________________________
5W-30 – Revised Nov 14, 2007
Mineral Oil...40-50 %weight
_____________________________________________________
10W-30 – Revised Dec 21, 2007
Mineral Oil...50-60 %weight

There seems to be some confusion here. There is no discrepancy between the MSDS and what I posted:

1. The file I provided was placed on the ExonMobil Japan server on 14-Jun-2008 13:35. The fact that the file name says 2005 probably doesn't mean anything. In any case the document I provided is accurate for what is being sold today. To see the date the file was last updated, see here:
http://www.mobil1.jp/products/pdf/

2. I don't know where you got the MSDS, but here is the real one for 5W-30:
http://www.msds.exxonmobil.com/psims/AlternateFormat.aspx?DocumentID=613115&DocumentFormat=RTF

It only list certain hazardous chemicals that are required to be included by Japanese law in the MSDS, so not all components are included. In Japan, they consider Hydocracked or "Catalytically Processed" to be mineral oil, and for the 5W-30 the mineral oil content is 40-50% by weight. Therefore, taking into account the other additives (some listed, some not), I would estimate that the PAO content is about 30-40%% for the 5W-30.
 
You said this:
Originally Posted By: Mark888
One thing it shows is that the only 100% PAO Mobil 1 in Japan is the 0W-40.

, but the Japanese MSDS for Mobil 1 0W-40 says this:

0W-40 – Revised Dec 31, 2008
KEROSENE...0.1-1 %weight
SLACK WAX (PETROLEUM), HYDROTREATED...50-60 %weight
Mineral Oil...5-10 %weight

I have no doubt which document I believe more likely describes current Mobil 1 0W-40. That does not mean I'm right but that it will take something big to change my mind.

In the link I provided earlier I posted the link to the Japanese Mobil 1 MSDSs. That's where I got the information. There are some other Mobil 1 oils' Japanese MSDSs that show 5-10% mineral oil (which I think is additive carrier fluid) that also do not show any hydrotreated slack wax. Other fluids not listed in any of these MSDSs are PAOs and any possible Group V fluids.
 
Originally Posted By: Mark888
Originally Posted By: windeye
don't know why, but the US page of Mobil1 5w30 does not state it meets OEM specs (like Ford, DC, GM etc), it's not in the product sheet either.
While on the Japanese site, it does state that. Are we getting different oils?

You must be looking at the wrong info.
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil1_5W-30.asp


You are right. M1 5w30 has more certifications. What I meant was for M1 EP 5w30, which does not have any OEM endorsement.
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_Extended_Performance.asp
 
Originally Posted By: JAG
the Japanese MSDS for Mobil 1 0W-40 says this:

0W-40 – Revised Dec 31, 2008
KEROSENE...0.1-1 %weight
SLACK WAX (PETROLEUM), HYDROTREATED...50-60 %weight
Mineral Oil...5-10 %weight

I have no doubt which document I believe more likely describes current Mobil 1 0W-40. That does not mean I'm right but that it will take something big to change my mind.

In the link I provided earlier I posted the link to the Japanese Mobil 1 MSDSs. That's where I got the information. There are some other Mobil 1 oils' Japanese MSDSs that show 5-10% mineral oil (which I think is additive carrier fluid) that also do not show any hydrotreated slack wax. Other fluids not listed in any of these MSDSs are PAOs and any possible Group V fluids.

I admit that it is confusing and that I don't really know how much PAO is in 0W40. It does appear that 0W40 has some ingredients that the others don't have, and the others have ingredients that 0W40 doesn't have. I don't think that the original document is wrong, but perhaps I misinterpreted what it meant (or maybe not), which is not surprising in that I don't read Japanese, and the contents of motor oil is pretty much a mystery and/or closely guarded trade secret these days. The MSDS is designed for "safety" reasons so that people know what hazardous chemicals are in it, and companies do everything they can to comply with the disclosure laws, but still not let anyone know what is really in it.
 
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