Mobil 1 FS 0w40, RAM 1500 5.7L HEMI 6000 mi, high FE

[OVERKILL]

Changed oil this morning with valvoline advanced 5w30. Sampling in 3k.

Please cut and post pictures of the internals of the filter.

These are very dirty running engines, if the 0W-40 was dissolving deposits from the previous oils, you will see evidence of that in the filter. If you don't, then it wasn't. Will also allow you to check for metal in the filter, which could point to a failing lifter.

What year is the truck?

 

[himemsys]

FYI... this is the new 0w40 reformulation.

Cool. It looks like they took away about 2000ppm Ca and added 1000ppm Mg. Maybe dropped the Boron by quite a bit too because the old formulation started at over 300ppm and should've gone down to about 150ppm or so based on 6k miles and 5.x TBN remaining. So having only 44 Boron tells me the starting value was a lot lower.

 

[tyman]

5.5 TBN at 6k miles is rather legit

 

[buster]

Gohkan was right every SP-rated oil, even the Euro ones with higher ZDDP, must be mixed-calcium/magnesium.

 

[350Rocket]

It looks to me like the wear metals have been trending up for the last 3 years. The first couple were close together enough to just assume normal error, but looking at all of them together it looks like it was a very slow increase and then became bigger. Next uoa should confirm or debunk that though.

 

[OVERKILL]

Gohkan was right every SP-rated oil, even the Euro ones with higher ZDDP, must be mixed-calcium/magnesium.

He stated:

I have been saying that the mid-SAPS API-SP formulations should have ~ 1,200-ppm Ca and full-SAPS API-SP formulations ~ 1,400-ppm Ca, with the rest of the detergent being ~ 500-ppm Mg.

Assuming this oil is actually M1 FS 0W-40 SP (I still want to see a VOA, since it would have been produced prior to November of 2022 based on the OCI history), he was spot-on with the calcium, but off considerably on the magnesium level.

The argument on this subject was about M1 ESP 0W-30 and the Mercedes LSPI test as @edyvw can attest, and whether you could pass it with 1,500-1,700ppm of calcium and whether that would also allow you to pass API SP. Then there was a strawman about an all calcium additive package and API SP being trotted out, which was never argued to be the case; nobody was arguing that a full-SAPS oil like M1 0W-40 with 3,200ppm of calcium would pass API SP and in fact I noted I was interested to see where the calcium level would land with the API SP update.

I commented on that back when the oil first showed up as SP:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...good-for-lspi-prevention.362294/#post-6299430

And @Rod Knock in his reply to my post was VERY close to guessing what those numbers ultimately ended up looking like.

 

[edyvw]

He stated:


Assuming this oil is actually M1 FS 0W-40 SP (I still want to see a VOA, since it would have been produced prior to November of 2022 based on the OCI history), he was spot-on with the calcium, but off considerably on the magnesium level.

The argument on this subject was about M1 ESP 0W-30 and the Mercedes LSPI test as @edyvw can attest, and whether you could pass it with 1,500-1,700ppm of calcium and whether that would also allow you to pass API SP. Then there was a strawman about an all calcium additive package and API SP being trotted out, which was never argued to be the case; nobody was arguing that a full-SAPS oil like M1 0W-40 with 3,200ppm of calcium would pass API SP and in fact I noted I was interested to see where the calcium level would land with the API SP update.

I commented on that back when the oil first showed up as SP:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...good-for-lspi-prevention.362294/#post-6299430

And @Rod Knock in his reply to my post was VERY close to guessing what those numbers ultimately ended up looking like.

Yes, conversation was about LSPI and MB229.52. Not this.
Oil is not an issue here. But, either there is some dramatic cleaning happening or there is actual mechanical issue for such dramatic jump.

 

[Bjornviken]

Latest report came back .... decided to give M1 FS 0w40 a shot.. Engine was run pretty much the same as before. Will be going back to valvoline next OCI.

View attachment 142750

doesn't look like m1 fs 0w-40 to me, CA too low and magnesium too high

 

[travis8352]

doesn't look like m1 fs 0w-40 to me, CA too low and magnesium too high

Read post number 2

 

[OVERKILL]

doesn't look like m1 fs 0w-40 to me, CA too low and magnesium too high

This is presumed to be the API SP version, which this change was expected in.

 

[Bjornviken]

This is presumed to be the API SP version, which this change was expected in.

Ok, arrived sooner than i expected.

 

[busdriver]

I'd go back to Valvoline or Schaeffers

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Please cut and post pictures of the internals of the filter.

These are very dirty running engines, if the 0W-40 was dissolving deposits from the previous oils, you will see evidence of that in the filter. If you don't, then it wasn't. Will also allow you to check for metal in the filter, which could point to a failing lifter.

What year is the truck?

This is what I’m thinking… if you look at my catch can thread, there is no boron at all in HPL’s PCMO, but as mileage accumulated on my OCI, boron was accumulating in my catch can, along with a decent dose of moly, but no wear metals.

Both @High Performance Lubricants and MolaKule believe these were deposits left behind from prior oils, and the AN/Esters in HPL were liberating some of these elements from engine surfaces. The wear metals did not show up at all in the PCV system, which means they’re staying in the pan even as internal surfaces are cleaned. If Mobil has gone back to the AN/Ester additives, it could literally be liberating iron particles that had “stuck” to the internals.

I’d do at least one more run on this M1 0w40 and see if the iron numbers drop. If so, no worries at all!

 

[aquariuscsm]

It looks to me like the wear metals have been trending up for the last 3 years.

i noticed this as well looking at his uoas.

 

[OVERKILL]

i noticed this as well looking at his uoas.

It looks to me like the wear metals have been trending up for the last 3 years. The first couple were close together enough to just assume normal error, but looking at all of them together it looks like it was a very slow increase and then became bigger. Next uoa should confirm or debunk that though.

6/4/2020:
Iron: 1.83ppm/1,000 miles

8/22/2020:
Iron: 2.06ppm/1,000 miles

5/2/2021:
Iron: 2.05ppm/1,000 miles

11/10/2022:
Iron: 3.17ppm/1,000 miles

Aluminum was basically noise/steady for all of them.

Given this is ppm, and there is room for significant variance, my take is that there MIGHT be an uptick at the end of 2022, but 4ppm difference isn't much and could also be noise.

I'm also curious to see what the next UOA brings, I was also interested in a filter autopsy, but the OP hasn't replied back.

 

[buster]

We’ll know for sure once we start seeing more 0w40 UOAs.

 

[OVERKILL]

We’ll know for sure once we start seeing more 0w40 UOAs.

Yup, exactly. However, this would seem to be the appropriate blend that it would land on for API SP, but I'd still like to see a VOA of a known API SP bottle.

Amusingly of course in the context of this thread, API SP and LSPI mitigation have zero value, lol.

 

[tcrs_circuit]

Please cut and post pictures of the internals of the filter.

These are very dirty running engines, if the 0W-40 was dissolving deposits from the previous oils, you will see evidence of that in the filter. If you don't, then it wasn't. Will also allow you to check for metal in the filter, which could point to a failing lifter.

What year is the truck?

Filter is already gone sadly .... wish I would have kept it or thought of it... stress kills the brain.

I guess cleaning old deposits is possible, I replaced the valve cover gaskets 50k miles ago and there was almost no varnish. Who's to say around the pistons though.



Surprisingly, the bottle of oil is API SN labeled. Willing to bet this is the API SP formula, and they just havent updated the label yet. I'll send a voa out if anyone wants me to.

 

[OVERKILL]

Filter is already gone sadly .... wish I would have kept it or thought of it... stress kills the brain.

I guess cleaning old deposits is possible, I replaced the valve cover gaskets 50k miles ago and there was almost no varnish. Who's to say around the pistons though.



Surprisingly, the bottle of oil is API SN labeled. Willing to bet this is the API SP formula, and they just havent updated the label yet. I'll send a voa out if anyone wants me to.

Would DEFINITELY like to see that VOA! Can you send it to OAI/Polaris so we get virgin oxidation?

 

[tcrs_circuit]

Would DEFINITELY like to see that VOA! Can you send it to OAI/Polaris so we get virgin oxidation?

I'll send it out soon and post on this thread.


Going to do a 3K mile run on the valvoline, if iron drops significantly, we likely know there is not a major engine issue going on.

I'll then do another run of M1 0w40 and see how it looks. I do think the cleaning theory is correct here.