Mobil 1 better cleaner than AutoRx?

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Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
I HIGHLY doubt Exxon-Mobil, who is the world's largest producer of PAO and Ester base-stocks (yeah, esters, like those FOUND in AutoRX) was seeking out Frank to replace their additive packages.


So, Mobil 1 uses lanolin esters now?
 
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
I HIGHLY doubt Exxon-Mobil, who is the world's largest producer of PAO and Ester base-stocks (yeah, esters, like those FOUND in AutoRX) was seeking out Frank to replace their additive packages.


So, Mobil 1 uses lanolin esters now?


I didn't say Exxon-Mobil uses lanolin esters in Mobil 1, now did I? Nor was it inferred.

I said Exxon-Mobil is the world's largest producer of PAO and Ester base-stocks, and I would imagine (but COULD BE WRONG) that those esters may also include the type found in AutoRX.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
I HIGHLY doubt Exxon-Mobil, who is the world's largest producer of PAO and Ester base-stocks (yeah, esters, like those FOUND in AutoRX) was seeking out Frank to replace their additive packages.


So, Mobil 1 uses lanolin esters now?


I didn't say Exxon-Mobil uses lanolin esters in Mobil 1, now did I? Nor was it inferred.

I said Exxon-Mobil is the world's largest producer of PAO and Ester base-stocks, and I would imagine (but COULD BE WRONG) that those esters may also include the type found in AutoRX.


They do not include the type that actually does the cleaning.
 
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
I HIGHLY doubt Exxon-Mobil, who is the world's largest producer of PAO and Ester base-stocks (yeah, esters, like those FOUND in AutoRX) was seeking out Frank to replace their additive packages.


So, Mobil 1 uses lanolin esters now?


I didn't say Exxon-Mobil uses lanolin esters in Mobil 1, now did I? Nor was it inferred.

I said Exxon-Mobil is the world's largest producer of PAO and Ester base-stocks, and I would imagine (but COULD BE WRONG) that those esters may also include the type found in AutoRX.


They do not include the type that actually do the cleaning.


Then how does Mobil 1 do cleaning?

As Exxon-Mobil uses their own chemicals in the production of the M1 line-up.....
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
I HIGHLY doubt Exxon-Mobil, who is the world's largest producer of PAO and Ester base-stocks (yeah, esters, like those FOUND in AutoRX) was seeking out Frank to replace their additive packages.


So, Mobil 1 uses lanolin esters now?


I didn't say Exxon-Mobil uses lanolin esters in Mobil 1, now did I? Nor was it inferred.

I said Exxon-Mobil is the world's largest producer of PAO and Ester base-stocks, and I would imagine (but COULD BE WRONG) that those esters may also include the type found in AutoRX.


They do not include the type that actually do the cleaning.


Then how does Mobil 1 do cleaning?

As Exxon-Mobil uses their own chemicals in the production of the M1 line-up.....


Lots of things clean, just some better than others.
 
Originally Posted By: ExxonMobil

Esterex™ esters

For as long as synthetic basestocks have been used in the lubrication business, we have been developing and manufacturing lubricant-quality esters. With more than 30 years of experience, we have become a true leader in the field, offering a complete line of Esterex esters for synthetic lubricants.

We constantly draw upon our history of success as we formulate, design and produce the ester basestocks you need to be successful.

ExxonMobil Chemical esters can be found in products meeting the most demanding applications such as automotive, textile, industrial, aviation turbine and compressor lubricants. And since synthetic lubricant esters come from raw materials having uniform molecular structures with well-defined properties, we can custom-design esters with predetermined properties for specific applications. Through this capability, we can meet any of your application needs.

Some of the properties we can optimize for specific applications include:

* Low- and high-temperature viscosities
* Viscosity index
* Pour point
* Volatility
* Biodegradability
* Thermal oxidative and hydrolytic stability
* Seal compatibility


Our extensive line of high-quality synthetic esters encompasses a wide viscosity range. Our manufacturing facilities feature dedicated, independent reactor trains, from raw material to finished base stock superior product quality and availability. So, when you need the best possible product that will meet your most exacting requirements, count on Esterex esters for the best solution.

In extreme conditions that call for more hydrolytic, oxidative and thermal stability, Synesstic alkylated naphthalenes can replace or supplement some esters. Because lubricants formulated with Synesstic AN blendstocks perform longer and better in all kinds of conditions, they can be more cost effective for end users.
 
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They make:

-Adipates

Wiki: Adipate (-OOC-(CH2)4-COO-) is the ionized form of adipic acid.

As food additives, adipates are used as acidity regulators. Examples are sodium adipate (E356) and potassium adipate (E357).

-Phthalates

Wiki: Phthalates are used in a large variety of products, from enteric coatings of pharmaceutical pills and nutritional supplements to viscosity control agents, gelling agents, film formers, stabilizers, dispersants, lubricants, binders, emulsifying agents, and suspending agents. End applications include adhesives and glues, agricultural adjuvants, building materials, personal care products, medical devices, detergents and surfactants, packaging, children's toys, modelling clay, waxes, paints, printing inks and coatings, pharmaceuticals, food products and textiles. Phthalates are also frequently used in soft plastic fishing lures, caulk, paint pigments, and sex toys made of so-called "jelly rubber." Phthalates are used in a variety of household applications such as shower curtains, vinyl upholstery, adhesives, floor tiles, food containers and wrappers, and cleaning materials. Personal care items containing phthalates include perfume, eye shadow, moisturizer, nail polish, liquid soap, and hair spray. [1] They are also found in modern electronics and medical applications such as catheters and blood transfusion devices. The most widely-used phthalates are the di-2-ethyl hexyl phthalate (DEHP), the diisodecyl phthalate (DIDP) and the diisononyl phthalate (DINP). DEHP is the dominant plasticizer used in PVC, due to its low cost. Benzylbutylphthalate (BBzP) is used in the manufacture of foamed PVC, which is mostly used as a flooring material. Phthalates with small R and R' groups are used as solvents in perfumes and pesticides.

-Trimellitates

Trimellitate Esters

These materials are produced by the esterification of a range of alcohols with trimellitic anhydride (TMA), which is similar in structure to phthalic anhydride with the exception of a third functionality on the aromatic ring. Consequently, esters are produced in the ratio of three moles of alcohol to one mole of anhydride. Common esters in this family are Tris-2-ethyhexyl trimellitate (Tri-octyl trimellitate - TOTM), L79TM (an ester of mixed semi-linear C7 and C9 alcohols, and L810TM, an ester of mixed C8 and C10 linear alcohols.

The principle features of these esters, when processed with PVC, is their low volatility, and consequently large volumes of trimellitate esters are used in high specification electrical cable insulation and sheathing. The extraction and migration resistance of these materials are also significantly improved relative to the phthalates. The low volatile loss also results in usage in automotive interior applications where the issue of windscreen fogging is important. In this respect they often compete with the linear high molecular weight phthalates such as 911P.

-Neopolyols

A preferred synthetic lubricant is neopolyol esters which are formed from the esterification of neopolyols and monocarboxylic acids. Thus, for example, use of neopolyols such as neopentyl glycol, trimethylolethane, trimethylolpropane, monopentaerythritol, technical grade pentaerythritol, dipentaerythritol, tripentaerythritol and the like can be esterified with carboxylic acids ranging from formic acid, acetic acid, propionic acid, up through long chain carboxylic acids both linear and branched. Typically, the acids employed range from C5 to C22.

One typical method of production of polyol esters would be to react a neopolyol with a carboxylic acid at elevated temperatures in the presence or absence of an added catalyst. Catalysts such as sulfuric acid, p-toluene sulfonic acid, phosphorous acid, and soluble metal esterification catalysts are conventionally employed.

While the method of production of neopolyol esters as outlined above is well known, the method produces materials with a set of standard properties. For a given combination of neopolyol and acid (or mixtures thereof) there is a set of product properties such as viscosity, viscosity index, molecular weight, pour point, flash point, stability, polarity, and biodegradability which are inherent to the compositions formed by the components in the recipe. To get out of the box of viscosity and other properties imposed by structure, attempts have been made to increase the viscosity of neopolyol esters by means of a second acid, a polybasic acid, in addition to, or instead of, the monocarboxylic acids described above. Thus, employing a polybasic acid such as, e.g., adipic acid, sebacic acid, azelaic acid and/or acid anhydrides such as, succinic, maleic and phthalic anhydride and the like enables one to have the components of a polymeric system when reacted with a neopolyol. By adding a poly- or di-basic acid to the mix, one is able to achieve some degree of cross-linking and/or oligomerization, thereby causing molecular size growth such that the overall viscosity of the system is increased.

High viscosity oils (greater than 100 cSt at 40° C.) are desirable for two reasons: alone, in certain end use applications such as greases, heavy duty engine oils, certain hydraulic fluids and the like, and in blends with lower viscosity oils to achieve a wide viscosity range of products for various iso grades. Complex acid esters like those described above (i.e., esters produced using a polyol, a polybasic acid for cross-linking, and a monobasic acid for end-capping), however, have inherent problems such as high acid numbers and high cost.

--------------------------------------


From the PDF's for their "basic" lists (obviously does not include custom blends which they advertise making), they market the Esterex Adipate line thusly:

Quote:
Esterex™ Adipate Esters can be used as sole basestocks or blendstocks with other synthetic fluids in many automotive and industrial
lubricant applications. These esters are ideal in high-temperature conditions, such as reciprocating air compressors, where discharge
valve cleanliness is required.


That is the only line that is listed with "cleanliness" as an advertising feature. Whether this is maintained cleanliness as in the product does not leave deposits, or that it has the ability to prevent and remove deposits? I don't know.

They also produce AN's as well as custom chemicals.

Quote:

For nearly half a century, we have been a leading manufacturer in synthetic base fluids and additive packages. Our products provide outstanding performance and have been developed with, and tested and evaluated for, compliance with globally recognized industry standards. And, to meet today’s growing demand for synthetic base fluids and additives, we offer tailored solutions that meet your unique requirements.

We have a distinguished record for the ongoing development of high-performance fluids for new applications. Available worldwide and backed by global technical support, our products excel in applications such as automotive, biodegradable and industrial
 
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Originally Posted By: sprintman
overkill re read what I posted. I did NOT say replace ALL additives. Way to much post skimming here.


I wasn't skimming. Your post was not clear:

Originally Posted By: sprintman
And nearly every oil company wanted RX to replace current additive in their oil but wouldn't pay the price of manufacture.


Perhaps clarify what you were trying to say in the above then?
 
Originally Posted By: sprintman
ADDITIVE not ADDITIVES. Do Americans use different grammar?


I'm Canadian
grin2.gif


But I'm still not getting the gist of what you are saying?
 
Originally Posted By: sprintman
Then I can't help you.


Oh, but I think you can.



-And nearly every oil company wanted RX to replace a current additive in their oil but wouldn't pay the price of manufacture.

-And nearly every oil company wanted RX to replace the current additives in their oil but wouldn't pay the price of manufacture.

Those are the two possibilities as to what I could think you were trying to say in your quote:

Originally Posted By: sprintman
And nearly every oil company wanted RX to replace current additive in their oil but wouldn't pay the price of manufacture.


You used additive as a singular. But we know oils have more than one. So I was thinking you either omitted pluralizing "additive" as "additives" (which you later stated was not your intention) or that you omitted the "a" in front of current, to mean a specific additive.
 
Frank has been approached by a couple of big names. While I don't know the particulars, terms could not be reached as to what Frank thought his process patent was worth and what these big named outfits were willing to pay for it. End of story.
 
I guess they just didn't have the cash Frank was looking for. Every man has a number, I guess they just didn't reach it.
thumbsup2.gif

Good on him!


AD
 
Well, I'm sure that they had it ..they just weren't willing to give enough of it up.

Again, not knowing the particulars, I'd have to think long and hard at selling my creation without getting assurances that I'd get my worth out of the sale. Suppose I made something, sold it for a minor cost ..but with an eternal "royalty" clause to it. Now dealing with a big outfit, I could reason that I'd make a little now ..and cash in big on the residuals/royalties over time.

Then they just change their minds and opt not to use it or merely use it in some low volume manner just to fulfill the contract ..and I'm sitting there with no money ..and no way to market my product.
 
If it were me, I'd look to score big. Big enough to retire comfortably and not need to sell anymore product, or ever work another day. Then it wouldn't matter what they did with the product, but that would only be if they hit that magic number. Odds are after we sat down and started to talk about that number they'd probably leave, and I'd still be making and selling my product.
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