Mobil 1 better cleaner than AutoRx?

[ionbeam22]

Originally Posted By: ADFD1
I'm a tough sell for a $20+ 12 ounce engine cleaner, that might have to be used twice in certain applications doubling the cost. But I don't frown upon anyone who tries something and posts honest sincere testimony.


One of the funny things is that for $3 more than cost of one bottle of ARX you can get a complete Mobil 5 synthetic oil change package from Autozone. 5Qt of M1 and an M1 oil filter ($30).

When you factor in the cost of a complete ARX cycle, $40 for the ARX + say 2x$20 for the two conventional oil changes needed, it's much more expensive ($80 total) than just running M1 for two 3000mi oil changes ($60) + a quart of MMO ($4/quart) for 2x 1 pint applications.

With $20 to play with you could purchase all sorts of aftermarket additives to interfere with the M1's chemistry. For example, I like to add Lubro-moly MoS2 anti-friction ($7 at AAP), so as to clog the oil filter with colloidal MoS2 and then add 1 pint of MMO 500 miles before each oil change.

http://www.liqui-moly.com/liquimoly/produktdb.nsf/id/usa_2009.html

So ARX is expensive for what you get, and that would be the case even if it does work. If it doesn't work, then it is even more expensive than commonly thought.

 

[Gary Allan]

The hour figure is unnecessary. Fuel consumed did so much work period. That's how most lifespans are measured for engines. The amount of fuel going through them. It automatically accounts for idling and load ..and just about everything else.

In terms of a taxi, one wouldn't be whacked to factor it by MPG. A taxi getting 9mpg vs. 18mpg is working twice as much over the same mileage span. It doesn't matter how the miles are compiled ...6 hours idling and 2 operating on the highway....2 idling and 6 on the stop and go shuffle. It's hard to avoid the fuel consumption.

 

[Nickdfresh]

Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
...

Here's a stupid little video I made when I opened to freezer to compare the Quaker State and the M1 High Mileage. Quaker State Torque Power 5W-30 vs Mobil 1 10W-30 High Mileage - freezer test at 0F.wmv


No offense, but was the video you made also put in a freezer?

 

[Oilpants]

It sounds to me like their lot's of variables in that test protocol!!! No two driver's ever drive the same and traffic conditions change. I get usually around 25 mpg but my wife gets aroun 27 mpg because she doesnt acclerrate like I do all the time. A comparative test can give meaningfull and credible results only if the test conditions are the same for all vechiles allthe time!!!! With a taxi fleet this doesnt seem possible but what I do no!??

Originally Posted By: ionbeam22
Originally Posted By: Oilpants
Alrite professor you're grammer is better than mine I got it. I am interested in how you measure gallons per hour when you run a taxi buisness!!? Even if every vechile has an hour meter installed the car is also driven an indeterminate (sp???) distence per hour.


1. Each taxi is employed for a fixed shift.

2. You collect receipts from gas purchases, which list the amount of gas purchased.

gas purchased / time in service == gallons per hour

Otherwise you could collect this information with an engine logger which will report fuel send-out by the fuel pump/EFI system.

The whole point of this calculation is to take distance traveled out of the equation, and instead measure a more fundamental quantity which is work/power output.

 

[Oilpants]

Well I thought the gph figure was about fuel consuption and not about lifespan of the engine as you indicate Gary. I take it all back peace out.
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
The hour figure is unnecessary. Fuel consumed did so much work period. That's how most lifespans are measured for engines. The amount of fuel going through them. It automatically accounts for idling and load ..and just about everything else.

In terms of a taxi, one wouldn't be whacked to factor it by MPG. A taxi getting 9mpg vs. 18mpg is working twice as much over the same mileage span. It doesn't matter how the miles are compiled ...6 hours idling and 2 operating on the highway....2 idling and 6 on the stop and go shuffle. It's hard to avoid the fuel consumption.

 

[buster]

I created a monster.

Mobil 1 does clean, that is a fact.

 

[ADFD1]

Originally Posted By: buster
I created a monster.

Mobil 1 does clean, that is a fact.


Although certain members would like us to believe that a good oil doesn't clean at all, or does very little cleaning.

Congrats on 20,000 posts!!!!!!!!

AD

 

[greenaccord02]

Originally Posted By: buster
I created a monster.

Mobil 1 does clean, that is a fact.


And a fine 20000th post it was! L'Chaim!

 

[ionbeam22]

Originally Posted By: Oilpants
It sounds to me like their lot's of variables in that test protocol!!! No two driver's ever drive the same and traffic conditions change.


Which is all captured in the gph statistic. Gallons per hour measures the amount of energy being sent into the engine. The engine converts the chemical energy in the gasoline into torque (rotational mechanical energy) and heat. Adding a dimension of time gives you a measure of work intensity.

If one engine is working at 1 gph, and the second is working at 2gph. I can say that the second engine is working twice as hard as the first, since it is using twice as much energy as the first.

Weather the engine uses its energy output to move a car, or work a dyno, is the same as far as wear and tear on engine goes.

Quote:
A comparative test can give meaningfull and credible results only if the test conditions are the same for all vechiles allthe time!!!!


You need to take a class on statistics. The issue boils down to sampling variability. While there might be plenty of fluctuation on a hourly basis, there is less on a daily/monthly/quarterly basis etc.

 

[ionbeam22]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
A taxi getting 9mpg vs. 18mpg is working twice as much over the same mileage span. It doesn't matter how the miles are compiled ...6 hours idling and 2 operating on the highway....2 idling and 6 on the stop and go shuffle. It's hard to avoid the fuel consumption.


No because higher work intensity puts more wear and tear on the engine.

If you have one engine working at 15% of max output, and the other at 90% of max output. The 90% engine is going to experience more wear per unit of time.

Even if you decided to run both engines on exactly 100 gallons of fuel.

 

[Oilpants]

gotcha!!!

Originally Posted By: ionbeam22
Weather the engine uses it output to move a car

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: ionbeam22
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
A taxi getting 9mpg vs. 18mpg is working twice as much over the same mileage span. It doesn't matter how the miles are compiled ...6 hours idling and 2 operating on the highway....2 idling and 6 on the stop and go shuffle. It's hard to avoid the fuel consumption.


No because higher work intensity puts more wear and tear on the engine.

If you have one engine working at 15% of max output, and the other at 90% of max output. The 90% engine is going to experience more wear per unit of time.

Even if you decided to run both engines on exactly 100 gallons of fuel.


If you have one engine at 15% max output and one @ 90% ..you're going to consume more fuel. You're going on the assumption that I'm going on the assumption (and assuming it yourself) that 90% output is going to consume a proportionally related amount of fuel.

 

[chevrofreak]

Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
...

Here's a stupid little video I made when I opened to freezer to compare the Quaker State and the M1 High Mileage. Quaker State Torque Power 5W-30 vs Mobil 1 10W-30 High Mileage - freezer test at 0F.wmv


No offense, but was the video you made also put in a freezer?

Is the link not working, or am I missing what you're saying?

 

[chevrofreak]

Originally Posted By: ionbeam22
Originally Posted By: Oilpants
Alrite professor you're grammer is better than mine I got it. I am interested in how you measure gallons per hour when you run a taxi buisness!!? Even if every vechile has an hour meter installed the car is also driven an indeterminate (sp???) distence per hour.


1. Each taxi is employed for a fixed shift.

2. You collect receipts from gas purchases, which list the amount of gas purchased.

gas purchased / time in service == gallons per hour

Otherwise you could collect this information with an engine logger which will report fuel send-out by the fuel pump/EFI system.

The whole point of this calculation is to take distance traveled out of the equation, and instead measure a more fundamental quantity which is work/power output.


The GPH measurements were taken with a Scangauge II.

 

[ionbeam22]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Originally Posted By: ionbeam22


If you have one engine working at 15% of max output, and the other at 90% of max output. The 90% engine is going to experience more wear per unit of time.

Even if you decided to run both engines on exactly 100 gallons of fuel.


If you have one engine at 15% max output and one @ 90% ..you're going to consume more fuel. You're going on the assumption that I'm going on the assumption (and assuming it yourself) that 90% output is going to consume a proportionally related amount of fuel.


Gary what I'm saying is that even if you put the same energy input into both engines (e.g 100 gallons of gasoline) the engine running at higher output will experience more wear than the engine running at lower output. It will also run out of gas faster.

That's why the GPH statistic is used since it measures the intensity of engines acitivy.

 

[sdan27]

So oil changes should be based on gallons of fuel used rather than hours or miles of operation. Maybe you could also factor in the quality of the fuel you're using.

 

[Nickdfresh]

Originally Posted By: buster
I created a monster.

Mobil 1 does clean, that is a fact.


From the 'anecdotal' evidence I've seen, there's no question that Mobil1 cleans...

 

[Nickdfresh]

Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
...

Here's a stupid little video I made when I opened to freezer to compare the Quaker State and the M1 High Mileage. Quaker State Torque Power 5W-30 vs Mobil 1 10W-30 High Mileage - freezer test at 0F.wmv


No offense, but was the video you made also put in a freezer?

Is the link not working, or am I missing what you're saying?


That was my point.

 

[Gary Allan]

I don't agree ..at least not as stated. GPH works for stationary installations that are typically run @ full load or near full load 100% of the time that they're running. That's why there's hour meters on gen sets and boats. They're mostly operated @ near full load most of the time. That would work around to a GPH.

When you can integrate and index mileage into the fuel component, then you've got an easier way to view it. A taxi that got 10mpg was "used" 50% more than one that got 15mpg (the figure depends on which way you're going). In whatever lifespan(s) exist, the 10mpg taxi moved closer to it than the 15mpg taxi. At least in terms of engine fatigue.

 

[ionbeam22]

Originally Posted By: sdan27
So oil changes should be based on gallons of fuel used rather than hours or miles of operation. Maybe you could also factor in the quality of the fuel you're using.


This is how maintainance for things like aircraft engines/military equipment is done. It's based on hours of service or time in service.