Mobil 1 and EP

[GMBoy]

Simple question for you guys:

Why would one bother paying more for Mobil 1 EP when:

1.) Reg. Mobil 1 is Factory fill for many automakers - none choose EP

2.) EP does not meet GM4817M spec whereas regular M1 does. THIS is my biggest concern and why I won't use it in my GM cars that call for Syn. So I question EP's effectiveness even though it may have "more supersyn".

3.) Regular M1 is what the GM OLM is calibrated for so with the OLM usually suggesting anywhere from 8-12k miles why do you need EP which advertises as a 15k mile oil?

Just my thoughts - yours are always appreciated!

 

[StrateLOSS]

Im sure this has een covered 1million times before. Noone needs an extended oil drain, its a matter of want. M1 EP has to be more advanced the reg M1, Id say it has to do with the certification process.

The cert thing is for warranty purposes, overshooting your OLM on warranty will void it so they dont see a need to certify it when they already have a cheaper to buy/produce formula that more then works with OLMs. once out of warranty you an do w/e you want, use ep then and go the extra mile.

nothing to really scratch your head over...its simple.

-Vic

 

[jsw]

I use M1 EP because it's the same price as M1 at AAP when it's on sale.

 

[GMBoy]

Originally Posted By: StrateLOSS
Im sure this has een covered 1million times before.



Me too, but the search did not come up with what I was asking.

 

[GMBoy]

Originally Posted By: StrateLOSS
nothing to really scratch your head over...its simple.

-Vic



I agree, I personally have no interest in EP, I only use Regular M1 and have since the 80's. I just wanted to see WHY people would spend more for EP. Spec wise, it just doesn't add up and sure it may be that they don't want to pay for the GM certification but if it is not there I am not buying it.

 

[SuperDave456]

If they do a UOA to make sure they can extend their OCI I don't see an issue.
However, I would not pull a 15,000 mile and Up interval without one.
The attraction is towards people who do 15,000 miles on a DINO oil and think "Oh, it run's fine whats the issue?"

Marketing is everything.

 

[orlzx6r]

The big difference is starting TBN. Regular M1 is approx 8 and M1 EP is approx 11. I wouldn't run the new regular M1 any longer than dino and also keep in mind many GM vehicals with a OLM have typical oil change intervals 12-13k miles on dino.

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: StrateLOSS
. . .overshooting your OLM on warranty will void it so they dont see a need to certify it when they already have a cheaper to buy/produce formula that more then works with OLMs. once out of warranty you an do w/e you want, use ep then and go the extra mile.
. . .

-Vic


While going past the OLM condemnation point is not a good idea, and I certainly wouldn't do so myself, it will not "void" your warranty. This is a myth that I'm sure is encouraged by car makers, and which grows on the internet. Doing so MAY provoke a warranty claim denial as to an engine failure, but the car maker would still bear the burden of showing that the failure came from improper oil maintenance. Admittedly not a fight most of us would want to have to fight. But even if the car maker prevailed in that claim denial, the wty is NOT void, but remains in full force for its duration as to other non-oil related issues.

 

[EricJRoy]

Originally Posted By: orlzx6r
The big difference is starting TBN. Regular M1 is approx 8 and M1 EP is approx 11. I wouldn't run the new regular M1 any longer than dino and also keep in mind many GM vehicals with a OLM have typical oil change intervals 12-13k miles on dino.


Good point about the TBN, what do you mean new? Are the current data sheets out of date on Mobils website? The 0w-40 says 10.6 TBN

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: orlzx6r
The big difference is starting TBN. Regular M1 is approx 8 and M1 EP is approx 11. I wouldn't run the new regular M1 any longer than dino and also keep in mind many GM vehicals with a OLM have typical oil change intervals 12-13k miles on dino.


Pure speculation without UOAs. You don't know which has better TBN retention, etc.

 

[orlzx6r]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: orlzx6r
The big difference is starting TBN. Regular M1 is approx 8 and M1 EP is approx 11. I wouldn't run the new regular M1 any longer than dino and also keep in mind many GM vehicals with a OLM have typical oil change intervals 12-13k miles on dino.


Pure speculation without UOAs. You don't know which has better TBN retention, etc.


My guess would be M1 EP has better TBN retention since that's how the product is marketed.

Pure speculation Without UOA???? That's what this board does.

 

[tig1]

M1 5-30EP does meet 4718 but XM does not target that customer because EP is for the long OCI crowd. I called Mobil tech and that's what I was told. As for FF, none require 15K OCIs except for a few Euro engines and most of those call for M1 0-40. Finally 15K OCI customers are post warranty folks and realize you can go much longer than a OLM. A friend is doing 15K with 5-30EP in his 03 Windstar with very good results.

 

[GMBoy]

Originally Posted By: tig1
M1 5-30EP does meet 4718



It is nowhere on the bottle label. Even the M1 website doesn't mention it.

EP:

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_Extended_Performance_5W-30.aspx


Reg M1:


http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_5W-30.aspx

 

[StrateLOSS]

I didnt mean to bring magnusson-moss act into the thread, I meant warranty or oil related purposes/problems. If they spec 7500 miles and your current batch and every other one before you ran for 10k, you can rest assured knowing they wont have to prove anything if your bearings go... or any lubricated part for that matter. just saying

 

[Gary Allan]

What's detailed in the 4718 spec? EP may be unable to meet it.

Delvac 1 can't not meet ONE Euro OEM spec, but does anyone realistically think that it wouldn't work ..and perhaps in a superior capacity in terms of actual lubrication performance? What it can't do is do it under those terms dictated by the spec.

Same thing here. EP is the ONLY extended drain oil that M1 offers. That is, it's the only one with a performance spec that is NOT recognized by ANY OEM. Even 0w-40 is not an extended drain oil. It's OEM certified for whatever drain you're using it for. That may be what you consider a long drain, but it's not extended beyond the OEM recommendation. One could surely use the 0w-40 in a "non-standard" capacity ..that is, going AGAINST your OEM spec ..and do fine with it ...

..but then you would be using it JUST LIKE someone using EP for 15k when the OEM recommends 7500/6months ..except you're the one doing your own certification speculating that it will meet your performance requirements. With EP, XOM is the one hanging it out there.

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: StrateLOSS
I didnt mean to bring magnusson-moss act into the thread, I meant warranty or oil related purposes/problems. If they spec 7500 miles and your current batch and every other one before you ran for 10k, you can rest assured knowing they wont have to prove anything if your bearings go... or any lubricated part for that matter. just saying


Yes they will. BTW, I am an attorney in "real life". The burden of proof is on the mfr, not the owner. That said, I would not advise anyone to be reckless in this area. Still, if your bearings fail because they were defective, and the EI establishes this, you will win at the end of the day because the mfr won't be able to prove that the over-used oil caused the problem. But again, best to avoid such fights, even if you will win in the end.

 

[StrateLOSS]

ok, best of luck to you.

Everyone listen up, a lawyer has spoken... no need to follow MFR OCIs to maintain warranty on your engines

 

[Y_K]

He did not say that. He pointed out a technicality and a misconception.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Originally Posted By: tig1
M1 5-30EP does meet 4718



It is nowhere on the bottle label. Even the M1 website doesn't mention it.

EP:

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_Extended_Performance_5W-30.aspx


Reg M1:


http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_5W-30.aspx


You are correct. If you would have finished quoting me completly, you would have noticed I said Mobil tech said EP will meet 4718 but they don't target the Vette crowd. I was told they don't certify EP for 4718 because EP is for the long OCI driver, not Vette drivers.

 

[StrateLOSS]

Y K I do understand that, but reality is most people cannot lawyer up over things like this. Especially a misinformed person, which most consumers are ( I'm not excluding myself ).

If you take it to litigation and ask the rep to prove its your fault, theyll simply say you overan the oil. Your rebuttle ? Youd then go on explaining UOAs and TBNs and meh meh meh, they can make ligitimate points on showing a $30 oil test doesnt show more then 1/4 of what really going on, and that they represent their client who MANUFACTURED that motor and does NOT specify that many miles on a fill of oil regardless of what is "fact" nowadays.

But I dont mean too sound belittling I just said it in laymens terms for normal folk.

A good lawyer can talk someone into walking into a volcano, but in a consumer vs corporation the good lawyer isnt on the consumers side. Plus when was the last time you seen something go along as it Should ? worlds messed up nowdays and dealers/mfrs are fighting hard for pennies.