Mobil 1 AFE vs Super Synth 0w20

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Leo

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Hi guys,

0w20s are still hard to come by here but I'm looking at using one of these 2 in my '11 Lexus IS350. The OCI would be ~10000 miles.

I noticed the S/S does not have Dexos 1 approval (whether they didn't submit for formal testing or it actually doesn't meet it is debatable) and the only UOA I can find on S/S shows it lacks any Moly or Boron and has plenty of Na. A cheapy formula? The AFE seems more desirable with a better add pack and CCS but costs approximately 50% more however. Thoughts?
 
I don't know which UOA of Super Syn you saw, but PQIA did a VOA of it (SN version) here:

http://www.pqiamerica.com/March2013PCMO/mobilsuper.htm

It definitely has moly and boron. It actually looks very similar to M1, but most likely with different base stocks. It's interesting to note that the Super Syn add pack is totally different from the Super 5000 add pack. I've been running my Honda Fit on Super Syn 0w-20 for the past two OCIs and I have no complaints.
 
It's quite clear the better oil is the AFE. As to whether it's a better value is another story. I think it is.
 
Originally Posted By: ksp7498
I don't know which UOA of Super Syn you saw, but PQIA did a VOA of it (SN version) here:

http://www.pqiamerica.com/March2013PCMO/mobilsuper.htm

It definitely has moly and boron. It actually looks very similar to M1, but most likely with different base stocks. It's interesting to note that the Super Syn add pack is totally different from the Super 5000 add pack. I've been running my Honda Fit on Super Syn 0w-20 for the past two OCIs and I have no complaints.



Interesting.
I've seen Mobil 1 15w-50 that had super-syn on the label. I thought it was the same as M1 only labelled different.
 
Does CCS have any relevance in your part of OZ?
If it's half the price of M1 0W-20 then M1 0W-20 would stay on the shelf in perpetuity if it was my choice.

BTW is it any cheaper than the dealer sourced TGMO 0W-20 as that's the benchmark oil for comparison?
 
Caterham, I just figured that the AFE having having 1/3rd the MRV indicates a superior base oil. I did read a whitepaper showing that a decreased CCS/MRV for the same HTHS = better fuel economy too. I believe TGMO 0w20 goes for $100/5L but its hard to get. More expensive than M1 AFE too.

ksp7498, the UOA I looked at was here. Bugger all Mo, B and a sprinkle of Ti. So it seems the 0w20 version of S/S seems a little 'cheap' unlike the 5w30.
 
Originally Posted By: Leo
Caterham, I just figured that the AFE having having 1/3rd the MRV indicates a superior base oil. I did read a whitepaper showing that a decreased CCS/MRV for the same HTHS = better fuel economy too. I believe TGMO 0w20 goes for $100/5L but its hard to get. More expensive than M1 AFE too.

ksp7498, the UOA I looked at was here. Bugger all Mo, B and a sprinkle of Ti. So it seems the 0w20 version of S/S seems a little 'cheap' unlike the 5w30.



Are you saying the S/S has moly,boron and titanium?
That sounds great to me. What's the problem.
Titanium AND moly. I was hoping to see that at some point. Where is this stuff. I'd like some.
 
The Ti was likely left over from a previous fill. Mobil Super does not have any according to VOA's but has Moly, boron, and a nice shot of calcium.

It looks like a good product. But if XOM is not formulating a good product then there are some serious cats and dogs living together kind of issues going on.
 
Originally Posted By: Leo
Caterham, I just figured that the AFE having having 1/3rd the MRV indicates a superior base oil. I did read a whitepaper showing that a decreased CCS/MRV for the same HTHS = better fuel economy too. I believe TGMO 0w20 goes for $100/5L but its hard to get. More expensive than M1 AFE too.

That paper is pretty old pre-dating the appearance of the ultra high VI OEM 0W-20s like TGMO 0W-20. If maximizing fuel economy is the goal then there is nothing better than TGMO 0W-20.
Member Toyota62 advised in another thread that TGMO was $12/L at his local Toyota dealership. You may want to PM him.
 
Clevy, sorry its Aussie colloquialism at work. "Bugger all" = basically none. No Mo or B.

dave1251, I've seen the Super Synth in the 5w30 have Mo and B with a Ca detergent system but the UOA I posted shows none of that? Agreed with the Ti being a left over.

Caterham, I'll give Toyota62 a PM and see what he finds.

I'm still tending to go with the Super Synth as I doubt the AFE will pay itself back in further mileage improvements or protection.
 
Btw makes sense now. I found this as quoted by: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Toyota 0W-20 SN is a completely different oil than Mobil Super 0W-20 SN, which uses the cheaper Afton additive package with Liquid Titanium and has no moly.


Makes sense now. I think TGMO or AFE is the go.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
I've posted the photo and part number of the TGMO 0W-20 available at the local toyota dealers...and have receiverd zero commentary from the TGMO experts as to whether the made in Japan Oz stuff is tha same miracle fluid that is TGMO made by Mobil in the US.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3065281/3

My Toyota dealer wants nearly $80 for 5L.


Do we even know which company blends this for the Nippon Giant in Japan??
21.gif
 
Thanks Shannow. I found a local dealer selling the 4L can for $66, making it 20% more expensive than AFE and almost double the cost of Mobil Super. With the unknown formula, I think it may an expensive punt!! Unless us guys Down Under is willing to pool some funds and get some VOA'd?
 
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: Leo
Caterham, I just figured that the AFE having having 1/3rd the MRV indicates a superior base oil. I did read a whitepaper showing that a decreased CCS/MRV for the same HTHS = better fuel economy too. I believe TGMO 0w20 goes for $100/5L but its hard to get. More expensive than M1 AFE too.

ksp7498, the UOA I looked at was here. Bugger all Mo, B and a sprinkle of Ti. So it seems the 0w20 version of S/S seems a little 'cheap' unlike the 5w30.



Are you saying the S/S has moly,boron and titanium?
That sounds great to me. What's the problem.
Titanium AND moly. I was hoping to see that at some point. Where is this stuff. I'd like some.


Look no further Kendall GT-1 Syn Blend has moly,boron and Titanium.
 
Originally Posted By: Leo

I'm still tending to go with the Super Synth as I doubt the AFE will pay itself back in further mileage improvements or protection.

I wouldn't assume for a second that M1 AFE 0W-20 provides better fuel mileage that Super Syn, in fact due to it's higher HTHSV it could be lower. The name AFE is marketing fluff. M1 AFE 0W-20 has been around for a long time and was originally intended for 5W-20 applications where it could provide a fuel economy advantage.

If Super Syn' is the cheapest 0W-20 you can get in OZ I'd use it with confidence.
 
Yep I think I'll go with Super Synthetic as its almost half the price of TGMO ($9 vs $16/L). I would be silly into thinking the TGMO will offset it's extra cost over the OCI despite its superior VI and FMs.
 
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