Mobil 1 5w-30 HM Ep @ 9.9k mi / GM 6.0L vortec @ 160k

[buster]

I absolutely agree and definitively approve 😎


Mobil 1 makes okay oil, not great oil. At one point they made the SuperTech for Walmart that was sold in the western parts of the US. Exxon is a whole seller, they don't give two craps about spending money on R&D. I hope I didn't hurt anyone's feelings, however, Mobil 1 is average motor oil at best.

False.

I absolutely agree and definitively approve 😎


Mobil 1 makes okay oil, not great oil. At one point they made the SuperTech for Walmart that was sold in the western parts of the US. Exxon is a whole seller, they don't give two craps about spending money on R&D. I hope I didn't hurt anyone's feelings, however, Mobil 1 is average motor oil at best.

Mobil 1 has been the gold standard for years. It's what Amsoil always benchmarked their oil against.

"About 500 formulations are blended each month at the technical centre in New Jersey. Our flagship products consists of about 15 to 20 hand selected components, which consist of synthetic base stocks and performance additives that address the demanding operating environments of today’s machines. Real-world testing begins at the EMRE technical centre, where candidate formulations are put through extreme tests in rigs, engines and vehicles which simulate high-speed, high-load and high-temperature environments. After testing, engines are disassembled and digital microscopes are used to inspect part surfaces for wear.
In another area of the centre, vehicles of every make and model are strapped to dynamometers to test oil blends, sometimes against competitive brands. Cycles can be custom-programmed to generate data for high speeds, stop-and-go traffic, long durations, or any combination of driving conditions.

Production equipment at the plant can blend up to 300 gallons per minute and dispense Mobil oil into anything ranging from plastic quart bottles to tank railcars. From New Jersey, the oil carries more than 40 years of research and development to consumers, shops and race teams around the world, delivering an advanced formula that’s proven to keep engines running like new."

 

[kschachn]

I absolutely agree and definitively approve 😎

Mobil 1 makes okay oil, not great oil. At one point they made the SuperTech for Walmart that was sold in the western parts of the US. Exxon is a whole seller, they don't give two craps about spending money on R&D. I hope I didn't hurt anyone's feelings, however, Mobil 1 is average motor oil at best.

That is truly an idiotic statement.

Nobody's feelings are hurt here, only anyone's remaining respect for anything you post.

 

[kschachn]

I’m wondering what was out of spec with this oil … ?
Many suggested an XW40 … seems like that’s worth a try considering many miles or hard work …

Nothing. This is yet another faulty use of UOA on this site and subsequent posts by clueless individuals that post with an unfounded air of knowledge.

Sometimes I have to think that if anyone from a blender or manufacturer is reading any of this they have to be either laughing or sick at the supposed definitive conclusions people make from UOA.

 

[Rod Knock]

Nobody's feelings are hurt here, only anyone's remaining respect for anything you post.

Making this personal, eh? Maybe you shouldn't speak for others, how about that?

Mobil 1 has been the gold standard for years. It's what Amsoil always benchmarked their oil against.

I'm entitled to my opinion like everyone else here. I didn't call Mobil 1 junk. I called it average, which it is. Like everyone else, ExxonMobil tries to make as much profit as possible, so they will cut as many corners as they can. Or were all those discussions here on BITOG, over the years, pointless about how they cheapened their formulations? Oh my God, the drama that comes with calling a Mobil 1 product "average."

 

[kschachn]

Making this personal, eh? Maybe you shouldn't speak for others, how about that?


I'm entitled to my opinion like everyone else here. I didn't call Mobil 1 junk. I called it average, which it is. Like everyone else, ExxonMobil tries to make as much profit as possible, so they will cut as many corners as they can. Or were all those discussions here on BITOG, over the years, pointless about how they cheapened their formulations? Oh my God, the drama that comes with calling a Mobil 1 product "average."

OMG the drama from posting nonsense. You weren’t posting opinion, you posted “Exxon is a whole seller, they don't give two craps about spending money on R&D” which is total garbage that you posted as fact. That’s what I responded to as did others in this thread.

 

[Rod Knock]

OMG the drama from posting nonsense. You weren’t posting opinion, you posted “Exxon is a whole seller, they don't give two craps about spending money on R&D” which is total garbage that you posted as fact. That’s what I responded to as did others in this thread.

How would you know?

 

[buster]

Making this personal, eh? Maybe you shouldn't speak for others, how about that?


I'm entitled to my opinion like everyone else here. I didn't call Mobil 1 junk. I called it average, which it is. Like everyone else, ExxonMobil tries to make as much profit as possible, so they will cut as many corners as they can. Or were all those discussions here on BITOG, over the years, pointless about how they cheapened their formulations? Oh my God, the drama that comes with calling a Mobil 1 product "average."

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, I wasn't suggesting you weren't. I just know that they do in fact put a lot of testing and R&D into their oils. Mobil 1 going from what it used to be to current does not suggest to me they "cut corners". The formulations evolve with time due to changing demands, regulations and additive/base oil technology. In fact, I would argue the others follow what Mobil 1 does - hence the move to multiple base oil approach now used by practically every blender, and lower SA oils which Mobil 1 was the first to do that. They were also the first to meet LSPI issues. 7 years ahead on that......

 

[OVERKILL]

Mobil 1 isn't that great of a motor oil it seems. I no longer use Mobil 1 in any of our vehicles. Is it bad oil? No, but probably on par with SuperTech and Amazon Basics, which isn't high praise for a brand that at one point in time was the leader in synthetic motor oils. The higher Iron says that you need a more robust motor oil. Try Quaker State Euro 5W-40 API SP. It's awesome motor oil!😎

Mobil 1 makes okay oil, not great oil. At one point they made the SuperTech for Walmart that was sold in the western parts of the US. Exxon is a whole seller, they don't give two craps about spending money on R&D. I hope I didn't hurt anyone's feelings, however, Mobil 1 is average motor oil at best.

As others have noted, this is a series of silly and baseless assertions being pedalled as fact. Mobil spends more on R&D in a year than the net worth of many of the smaller blenders. They were meeting the LSPI formulation requirements a decade before other blenders even knew about it.

They've been the lubricant of choice for Corvette race teams, numerous 24hr team and every AMG Mercedes and Porsche. Please let me know the next time you see somebody pouring Amazon Basics or Supertech right off the shelf into their car at the 24hrs of Sebring.

The fact that Mobil blends product for other brands has absolutely nothing to do with the formulation of their flagship product line. That's like saying Porsche is garbage because they designed and sold a basic flat-4 to Tata for use in India. All of the large OEM's have produced inexpensive wholesale products that have been sold under store brands, Shell for example currently produces the oil for Canadian Tire, back in the day, that was Imperial Oil (XOM). NAPA oil has historically been produced by Ashland (Valvoline).

Mobil and Shell co-own one of the largest and most advanced additive companies in the world, which is Infineum. On top of that, Mobil has the relatively unique position of developing and producing an impressive list of advanced base oils, products that companies like BP and Shell do not manufacture. This includes AN's, Esters and of course their huge portfolio of PAO's, which cover a MUCH broader range of viscosities than Shell's GTL products.

Asserting that Mobil doesn't spend money on R&D isn't just incorrect, it's a bold-faced lie. Mobil spends considerable money not just in-house, but by supporting academic institutions, National Labs/research facilities, the details of which can be gleaned from publications such as this one:

https://corporate.exxonmobil.com/-/media/Global/Files/energy-and-carbon-summary/Energy-and-Carbon-Summary.pdf

And another:

Advancing climate solutions

ExxonMobil is committed to advancing innovative solutions for a lower-carbon energy future

corporate.exxonmobil.com

Mobil spends, typically, >$1 billion a year on R&D. In Comparison, BP most recently spent ~$350 million. XOM is the only one whose R&D spending was increasing prior to 2020:

 

[930.engineering]

I don't think the OP necessarily needs to go 0W-40 or 5W-40. There are several 5W-30s out there that will likely perform better than M1 5W-30 HM EP for this application with a HTHS of 3.7 mPas instead of just ~3.0 mPas, not to mention Redline, Ravenol VMP or Ravenol REP, all 'just' 5W-30. Mobil also has excellent 5W-30 oils like M1 ESP 5W-30 with a solid HTHS of 3.5 mPas.
By 'perform better' I do mean less copper wear in particular. If I had any concerns I'd consider 21 ppm Cu more to be one of them than 76 ppm Fe. At just 8 ppm Al is low anyway, so piston and cylinder wear is certainly no issue. While Cu is bearings mainly, I'd blame the valvetrain for Fe in this case.

IMHO, thanks for the solid information, however if someone claims 'Mobil is just average' it isn't even worth discussing. 🙃

 

[2EHA]

you can go to walmart and buy enough 3.5+ HTHS acea oils to fill a swimming pool

 

[Rod Knock]

As others have noted, this is a series of silly and baseless assertions being pedalled as fact. Mobil spends more on R&D in a year than the net worth of many of the smaller blenders. They were meeting the LSPI formulation requirements a decade before other blenders even knew about it.

None of us know precisely how much R&D money they spend on these ILSAC/GF6A motor oils that we can all buy at Walmart. Keep in mind that I didn't say that XYZ brand is better than Mobil 1. I said that it's average. I'm reasonably sure that the bulk of that R&D money is spent on much more "interesting" things than run-of-the-mill motor oil. I didn't call out their ESP or performance lines of motor oils either. I talked strictly about the ILSAC/GF6A oils that you can buy at Walmart that we all have access to. In fact, none of the major motor oil producers will lose any sleep over those, considering how fierce the competition is. Mobil 1 still has that $15 rebate for the 5qt jug of EP oils. All of these oils have to meet the same spec, and every blender has to manufacture them for as little as possible. We're not talking about Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30, or X3 0W-40, or some other oil where they truly spent a pretty penny developing and blending it. Nope, we're talking about run-of-the-mill motor oil. Everyone is trying to make this as cheap as they can, and as a consequence, Mobil 1 doesn't outshine the competition here. And I'll leave it at that because I can't go into further details about certain stuff. Certainly, I wasn't looking to make you mad @OVERKILL.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, I wasn't suggesting you weren't. I just know that they do in fact put a lot of testing and R&D into their oils. Mobil 1 going from what it used to be to current does not suggest to me they "cut corners". The formulations evolve with time due to changing demands, regulations and additive/base oil technology. In fact, I would argue the others follow what Mobil 1 does - hence the move to multiple base oil approach now used by practically every blender, and lower SA oils which Mobil 1 was the first to do that. They were also the first to meet LSPI issues. 7 years ahead on that......

Well said, and my comment about making things personal wasn't aimed at you.

OMG the drama from posting nonsense. You weren’t posting opinion, you posted “Exxon is a whole seller, they don't give two craps about spending money on R&D” which is total garbage that you posted as fact. That’s what I responded to as did others in this thread.

Exxon is a whole seller, they certainly are good at what they are doing, and no, they don't spend a heck of a lot on the development and manufacturing of ILSAC/GF6A motor oils that you can buy at your local Walmart. The other product lines are a different story, though, and that's where a lot of that money is going. There is a good reason why those other motor oils that they make are more expensive.

 

[BLND1]

OP could always just use a severe service OCI interval for his severe service…

I’d probably start there.

 

[kschachn]

None of us know precisely how much R&D money they spend on these ILSAC/GF6A motor oils that we can all buy at Walmart. Keep in mind that I didn't say that XYZ brand is better than Mobil 1. I said that it's average. I'm reasonably sure that the bulk of that R&D money is spent on much more "interesting" things than run-of-the-mill motor oil. I didn't call out their ESP or performance lines of motor oils either. I talked strictly about the ILSAC/GF6A oils that you can buy at Walmart that we all have access to. In fact, none of the major motor oil producers will lose any sleep over those, considering how fierce the competition is. Mobil 1 still has that $15 rebate for the 5qt jug of EP oils. All of these oils have to meet the same spec, and every blender has to manufacture them for as little as possible. We're not talking about Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30, or X3 0W-40, or some other oil where they truly spent a pretty penny developing and blending it. Nope, we're talking about run-of-the-mill motor oil. Everyone is trying to make this as cheap as they can, and as a consequence, Mobil 1 doesn't outshine the competition here. And I'll leave it at that because I can't go into further details about certain stuff. Certainly, I wasn't looking to make you mad @OVERKILL.


Well said, and my comment about making things personal wasn't aimed at you.


Exxon is a whole seller, they certainly are good at what they are doing, and no, they don't spend a heck of a lot on the development and manufacturing of ILSAC/GF6A motor oils that you can buy at your local Walmart. The other product lines are a different story, though, and that's where a lot of that money is going. There is a good reason why those other motor oils that they make are more expensive.

Showing that we can always dig the hole deeper.

 

[930.engineering]

OP could always just use a severe service OCI interval for his severe service…

I’d probably start there.

True, as mentioned a couple of times this is a 'severe service' application and (shortened) 'severe service OCIs' will likely help a tiny bit, but I doubt these will considerably reduce iron and copper wear per 1000 mls. I'd almost bet more substancial MOFT will provide greater benefit (>>HTHS).

 

[Rod Knock]

Showing that we can always dig the hole deeper.

I always value your feedback

 

[OVERKILL]

None of us know precisely how much R&D money they spend on these ILSAC/GF6A motor oils that we can all buy at Walmart.

But we do know how much each of them spend, comparatively, on R&D overall, and XOM is top of the heap there, again, making the claim that they don't spend on R&D as being baseless at best.

Keep in mind that I didn't say that XYZ brand is better than Mobil 1. I said that it's average.

Which is based on absolutely zero data about how any of these oils are formulated, it's wild posit, peddled as fact.

I'm reasonably sure that the bulk of that R&D money is spent on much more "interesting" things than run-of-the-mill motor oil.

Regardless of how it is spent, comparatively, Mobil spends more on R&D than its peers, this is a complete contradiction of your claim that they don't spend on R&D, they spend 3x what your darling BP spends.

I didn't call out their ESP or performance lines of motor oils either. I talked strictly about the ILSAC/GF6A oils that you can buy at Walmart that we all have access to. In fact, none of the major motor oil producers will lose any sleep over those, considering how fierce the competition is. Mobil 1 still has that $15 rebate for the 5qt jug of EP oils. All of these oils have to meet the same spec, and every blender has to manufacture them for as little as possible.

What does you "calling it out" with baseless posit have any bearing on? Mobil is the only one of the majors using any quantity of PAO in this segment, an expensive base oil, which they wouldn't use if their goal was exclusively the lowest possible cost. This is the reason that formulation of the Mobil 1 product line looks different than the formulation of the Mobil Super product line for example. Them having a rebate is a strawman, all the majors run rebates and this has nothing to do with the development cost of the product. I can buy M1 0w-40 on sale at CT just like I can their 5w-20, and the same goes for BP products when those are the ones on sale.

We're not talking about Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30, or X3 0W-40, or some other oil where they truly spent a pretty penny developing and blending it. Nope, we're talking about run-of-the-mill motor oil. Everyone is trying to make this as cheap as they can, and as a consequence, Mobil 1 doesn't outshine the competition here. And I'll leave it at that because I can't go into further details about certain stuff. Certainly, I wasn't looking to make you mad.

Nobody is mad, it's simply a criticism of making authoritative statements about what a company does or doesn't spend their money on, a position you now appear to be doubling-down on. This isn't a good look. Making statements like an oil doesn't "outshine the competition here" which I can only assume is based on a layman take on this single (not trended) UOA, with no historical context, no OCI history, and using a tool whose primary purposes are to determine suitability for continued use and identification of contamination, isn't helping your cause.

This isn't aided by the vague allusions to proprietary knowledge, either.

People choose a darling, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, all the majors make excellent oils, but when a poster starts showing clear bias and feels they must necessarily drag other products or brands down in order for their pitch for an alternative to carry more weight, I stop taking that person seriously.

M1 EP HM 5w-30, the subject of this thread, is the only oil mentioned that caries ACEA A5/B5-16 BTW. And for some reason, they decided to make it 20-30% PAO, rather than just formulate it like Mobil Super 5w-30:

Comparatively, the MSDS for the Warren Supertech 5w-30:

Shows the base oil blend dominated by a base oil similar (or it could be) Petro-Canada "Purity 1020":

https://www.solventsandpetroleum.com/uploads/6/0/3/7/60372849/purity_1020_sds.pdf

Which is a Group II/II+ product:

Petro-Canada PURITY™ Base Oils | PURITY | Petro-Canada Lubricants

Optimize your formulations with a full range of Group II/II+ PURITYTM Base Oils. Read more.

lubricants.petro-canada.com

Mobil also happens to make Group II/II+ base oils under the EHC family, which is very likely what is being used here. Weird that Mobil would not use this to blend the EP HM 5w-30 if that's all that's required to make the oil as cheap as possible....

 

[BLND1]

True, as mentioned a couple of times this is a 'severe service' application and (shortened) 'severe service OCIs' will likely help a tiny bit, but I doubt these will considerably reduce iron and copper wear per 1000 mls. I'd almost bet more substancial MOFT will provide greater benefit (>>HTHS).

🤷‍♂️ . Averages for the engine are for half the miles. I’d start there and not worry about it. Without the universal average dataset it’s really impossible to say if his “high” wear numbers are statistically significant.

Adding in a completely new variable isn’t going to inform you any more or less.

 

[Rod Knock]

@OVERKILL I called Mobil 1 average motor oil, and look how many lines and posts with detailed graphics and MSDS screenshots you put up in defense of ExxonMobil. I rest my case.

If the ~100 quarts of Mobil 1 EP 5W-30 and Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 that I already own and use on some of my family's vehicles, no worries, now for sure it's pretty well hammered into my head that Mobil 1 is the best. I shall never speak ill of ExxonMobil ever again if calling one of their many product lines "average" can even be considered "ill speaking." Thank you for setting me straight. I got the message.

 

[OVERKILL]

@OVERKILL I called Mobil 1 average motor oil, and look how many lines and posts with detailed graphics and MSDS screenshots you put up in defense of ExxonMobil. I rest my case.

You don't have a case, this isn't court, you made some authoritative statements and several people, myself included, took issue with the manner in which those statements were made.

Let's not try and re-write history to claim a position more benign than what was taken. You stated:

Mobil 1 isn't that great of a motor oil it seems. I no longer use Mobil 1 in any of our vehicles. Is it bad oil? No, but probably on par with SuperTech and Amazon Basics, which isn't high praise for a brand that at one point in time was the leader in synthetic motor oils.

You made the comparison to Supertech, which is why I posted up the MSDS snippets to show that from a base oil perspective, their formulation is certainly not similar. Your actual claim was initially that it wasn't that great of an oil and agreed that Castrol (which would be another "average" oil if you were making attempts to keep your position straight) would do better:

I absolutely agree and definitively approve

And made attempts to imply that because Mobil at one point manufactured Supertech, that this somehow had implications for their own branded products:

Mobil 1 makes okay oil, not great oil. At one point they made the SuperTech for Walmart that was sold in the western parts of the US. Exxon is a whole seller, they don't give two craps about spending money on R&D. I hope I didn't hurt anyone's feelings, however, Mobil 1 is average motor oil at best.

And in fact your statement was that it was an average oil at best, implying that more likely, it was less than average.

You backed away from this later by saying you called it average:

I'm entitled to my opinion like everyone else here. I didn't call Mobil 1 junk. I called it average, which it is. Like everyone else,

And also stated that this was your opinion, however, you didn't preface any of your statements with "in my opinion". You made several pointed remarks about not only the product, but the company, its spending habits and performance, all presented as fact, not opinion. I expect this conversation would have gone quite differently had you taken a different approach.

If the ~100 quarts of Mobil 1 EP 5W-30 and Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 that I already own and use on some of my family's vehicles,

I mean, you earlier claimed you no longer use it in any of your vehicles so... 🤷‍♂️

no worries, now for sure it's pretty well hammered into my head that Mobil 1 is the best. I shall never speak ill of ExxonMobil ever again if calling one of their many product lines "average" can even be considered "ill speaking." Thank you for setting me straight. I got the message.

Nobody here is claiming it is the best, simply that it's not an average oil "at best" blended to the same price point as Supertech or Amazon basics. Mobil does sell product that is, which is their Mobil Super lineup, but the Mobil 1 portfolio is clearly formulated differently and typically has more approvals along with the use of PAO, in varying quantities, in the base oil blend, which is a more costly approach.

The higher tier offerings from the majors, like say Castrol Edge EP, Mobil 1 EP along with Shell's constantly shifting Ultra/Ultra Platinum lines are all stated, by their respective blenders, to be better than their lower tier stuff. Either we believe that to be the case, that these products are above average, or we don't. Beyond that, whose product you pick becomes subjective and personal based on history of use, opinion with respect to the parent org...etc. I try to avoid knocking any of them, but have noted that, when possible, I'll prefer a PAO-based oil over one that isn't, within the same performance envelope, because of the cold temp performance and the fact that it shows the blender was willing to spend more formulating it but that's just a wholly personal thing and doesn't weigh into the actual performance of the product itself.

 

[Rod Knock]

You don't have a case, this isn't court, you made some authoritative statements and several people, myself included, took issue with the manner in which those statements were made.

Let's not try and re-write history to claim a position more benign than what was taken. You stated:


You made the comparison to Supertech, which is why I posted up the MSDS snippets to show that from a base oil perspective, their formulation is certainly not similar. Your actual claim was initially that it wasn't that great of an oil and agreed that Castrol (which would be another "average" oil if you were making attempts to keep your position straight) would do better:


And made attempts to imply that because Mobil at one point manufactured Supertech, that this somehow had implications for their own branded products:


And in fact your statement was that it was an average oil at best, implying that more likely, it was less than average.

You backed away from this later by saying you called it average:


And also stated that this was your opinion, however, you didn't preface any of your statements with "in my opinion". You made several pointed remarks about not only the product, but the company, its spending habits and performance, all presented as fact, not opinion. I expect this conversation would have gone quite differently had you taken a different approach.


I mean, you earlier claimed you no longer use it in any of your vehicles so... 🤷‍♂️


Nobody here is claiming it is the best, simply that it's not an average oil "at best" blended to the same price point as Supertech or Amazon basics. Mobil does sell product that is, which is their Mobil Super lineup, but the Mobil 1 portfolio is clearly formulated differently and typically has more approvals along with the use of PAO, in varying quantities, in the base oil blend, which is a more costly approach.

The higher tier offerings from the majors, like say Castrol Edge EP, Mobil 1 EP along with Shell's constantly shifting Ultra/Ultra Platinum lines are all stated, by their respective blenders, to be better than their lower tier stuff. Either we believe that to be the case, that these products are above average, or we don't. Beyond that, whose product you pick becomes subjective and personal based on history of use, opinion with respect to the parent org...etc. I try to avoid knocking any of them, but have noted that, when possible, I'll prefer a PAO-based oil over one that isn't, within the same performance envelope, because of the cold temp performance and the fact that it shows the blender was willing to spend more formulating it but that's just a wholly personal thing and doesn't weigh into the actual performance of the product itself.