Mobil 1 5W-30 & 10W-30

[ex_MGB]

At Wally World they've got the Mobil 1 5W-30 "New Car Formulation" and Mobil 1 10W-30 "Vehicles With Greater Than 75,000 miles".

I've got a 2001 Miata with 18,000 miles and have started using the above 5W-30. Question - Should I use this year round or should I use a 10W-30 in the summer? Same question for my 2002 Protege5 with 5000 miles.

I also have a '97 Maxima SE 5-speed with 84,000 miles. Question - Should I use the above 10W-30 year round or switch to a 5W-30 in the winter?

I do all my driving in the North-East and mostly in Delaware where it rarely gets below 20 deg F. I drive hard at times. BTW, I've got Redline MT-90 in both transmissions and Redline differential gear oil in the rear of the Miata. Any thoughts on the Redline in a Torsen differential?

I just put AAMCO ATF syn-blend (and GM filter kit) in my wife's '96 Astro. Is that stuff decent? I'm running Redline differential gear oil in its rear as well. Is that all right?

Any replies are greatly appreciated by this Newbie.

[ September 01, 2002, 07:17 PM: Message edited by: ex_MGB ]

 

[VaderSS]

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000385#000003

EDIT:
The AAMCO fluid is fine.

I think the Redline is fine in all the applications mentioned.

[ September 01, 2002, 07:38 PM: Message edited by: VaderSS ]

 

[Eric]

Price cures all objections, ex-MGB. The wally world in Elkton Md had about 40 5 quart jugs of 10w-30 Mobil 1 on sale for $17.88 plus tax as of Friday. For that price, I don't think 5w Vs 10w matters much.

 

[Al]

Although I'm trying things other tham Mobil 1. Ithink most will agree that 10W is better than 5W because there is less (or none) Viscosity Improver in the 10W. I use the 10W all year around in 6carswhose years range from '97 to 2001. I live in central Pa and 10W starts in -18F with no problem.

 

[Patman]

Mobil 1's labelling of their oils is just creating more confusion for the consumer, not less confusion! Does it really say it's for cars with 75k or more? (the 10w30 that is) I thought it just said for higher mileage engines. That's dumb of them, as you can safely run 10w30 in any new car out there, even if they call for 5w20.

 

[jjbula]

I think Mobil 1 is trying to guess what the oil buyer wants to hear with labeling their 10w30.

New cars say "5w20" or "5w30" on the oil caps and less educated owners freak out when someone says its o.k. to use 10w30.

Since 10w30 is thicker it will tend to resist leaking and reduce oil consumption.

I like 10w30 for the fact it has more base oil (5-10%), less VII and lower Noack. HTHS is often marginally higher as well.

Cheers

JJ

[ September 01, 2002, 11:36 PM: Message edited by: jjbula ]

 

[jjbula]

That said I also like to use M1 5w30 in the winter if I end up driving in areas below 20F. Don't know if it is really necessary to switch though. If you stay with the same brand of oil it will not hurt to switch between 0w30, 5w30 and 10w30.

 

[dickwells]

I feel I need to throw a couple of points out here. #1 Read your owners manual and to strictly by it unless you know enough to overrule it. #2 Whether the car starts or not is not the crucial measure. Its the time the oil takes to get up to the bearings thats important. I have heard engines knock for 15 seconds when started at -20. The damage is much greater then than at any time when warm. I have used 5W M1 all year round and never had a problem. Well, sometimes I switched to 0W for winter. Regards. PS The bearing clearances may be drastically different between different cars. Check out the SHO forum discussions.

 

[SteveD2]

ex_MGB,

We've heard that the "new car" and "high mileage" designations are all just BS from the marketing department. We've also heard that the different viscosities of Mobil 1 are really the same oil in different labels to appeal to anything the consumer wants to buy.

Anyway, they're all 30 wt when hot. I'm not sure that there's any difference between the 100C viscosity of used Mobil 1 of 5W-30 and 10W-30 until we see some lab tests of the current formulation with many miles on it. If your owner's manual says to use the 5W-30 in your winter climate, do it.

Ken

 

[Mark in NY]

I have been using 0-40 M1 going by the theory that the syn has a naturally higher VI than dino and so does not contain very much VI improver. So why not take advantage of the wider spread made available by the technology?
As far as the 0,5,10-30 being the same, well in a practical sense they are. They are different but very close. Mobil was good enought to honor my request and supplied me with temp vs viscosity curves for their conventional and syn oils - all grades. Looking at the info in graph form is a lot more enlightening than looking at the specs on a table. These are small PDF files "vta018a.pdf" and "vta019a.pdf". I don't have a site, but if you want you can request them from Mobil - or me and I will email them to you.
BTW, a friend just bought a 2002 Pontiac with the 3.8 (non turbo) motor. Interestingly the oil cap did not say 5-30 the industry standard, or the new 5-20. It said 10-30. Maybe there is something to be concerned about by using conventional 5-30.

 

[ex_MGB]

Thanks for the replies. I'll stick to the owners manual for now as I've always done in the past. Guess Mobil's characterizations of 5W-30 vs. 10W-30 are simply for consumer consumption rather than indicating that there were some inherent new properties which might supercede owners manual recommendations.

For example, after 75,000 miles I thought perhaps they had calculated (or run tests) that an engines tolerances had openned up to the point where their 10W-30 was acceptable, or perhaps better, to use in cold weather than a 5W-30.

[ September 01, 2002, 09:47 PM: Message edited by: ex_MGB ]

 

[ex_MGB]

I have been using 0-40 M1 going by the theory that the syn has a naturally higher VI than dino and so does not contain very much VI improver. So why not take advantage of the wider spread made available by the technology?

An excellent question. Seems to go against the idea that there's an issue with 5W-30 in comparison to the smaller range 10W-30 as 0W-40 is a greater range still, but, that's perhaps only germane to dino juice.

Of course, my owners manual doesn't mention 0W-40 or synthetics at all for that matter...

[ September 01, 2002, 09:59 PM: Message edited by: ex_MGB ]

 

[Mark in NY]

yeah, those owners manuals........

I'll never look at them the same way again after reading that EPA letter (interesting articles post) forcing the manufacturers of both autos and oil to push 5-20 on all of us.
I supose this was the same type of directive some years back that mandated 5-30 instead of letting the engineers call out whatever they thought best...........
And now we are stuck trying to figure out the real deal with all of the verbal side-stepping from the OEM's tech service guys.

 

[Mark in NY]

I just checked http://www.castrol.com.au/lube_guide/index.html

-which was mentioned in another thread. Following the guide - a V6 Mondeo which is the same as my Contour should take 10-40.
Why would Ford only recommend that same engine use 5-30 in the states regardless of ambient temp?

 

[Patman]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mark in NY:
I have been using 0-40 M1 going by the theory that the syn has a naturally higher VI than dino and so does not contain very much VI improver. So why not take advantage of the wider spread made available by the technology?
As far as the 0,5,10-30 being the same, well in a practical sense they are. They are different but very close. Mobil was good enought to honor my request and supplied me with temp vs viscosity curves for their conventional and syn oils - all grades. Looking at the info in graph form is a lot more enlightening than looking at the specs on a table. These are small PDF files "vta018a.pdf" and "vta019a.pdf". I don't have a site, but if you want you can request them from Mobil - or me and I will email them to you.
BTW, a friend just bought a 2002 Pontiac with the 3.8 (non turbo) motor. Interestingly the oil cap did not say 5-30 the industry standard, or the new 5-20. It said 10-30. Maybe there is something to be concerned about by using conventional 5-30.

---

Yep, the 3.8 family of engines recommends 10w30. I don't know if this is a direct correlation or just a good design, but those 3.8s really are very durable. It's possible they might not be quite as durable when running 5w30. I'd like to see a real world report on someone who has gone 500,000 miles using nothing but 5w30.

If 0w30, 5w30 and 10w30 M1 all behave roughly the same viscosity wise, then as it's mentioned above, the lower Noack value and higher HTHS value make 10w30 easily the best choice here out of those three. Although the new 0w40 has me intrigued as well, as it seems to be a totally different animal and isn't loaded down with VII like one would assume.

 

[Patman]

quote:

---

Originally posted by dickwells:
I feel I need to throw a couple of points out here. #1 Read your owners manual and to strictly by it unless you know enough to overrule it. #2 Whether the car starts or not is not the crucial measure. Its the time the oil takes to get up to the bearings thats important. I have heard engines knock for 15 seconds when started at -20. The damage is much greater then than at any time when warm. I have used 5W M1 all year round and never had a problem. Well, sometimes I switched to 0W for winter. Regards. PS The bearing clearances may be drastically different between different cars. Check out the SHO forum discussions.

---

With the addition of moly to the new Mobil 1 though, there would not be a problem even when the outside temp is very cold, since that barrier of moly will protect the engine until the oil can flow properly.

 

[VaderSS]

If it means anything, Mobil states that 0W40 can be used wherever 0W30, or 5W30 are required. I don't think they would make that statement if it would hurt your engine, too much liability.

 

[dickwells]

Patman: You make a good point on the Moly, however I am particularly thinking of the cushioning effect of the oil film at the bearings and lifters. The "rubbing" areas are protected by moly but a thin coat of moly will not help much on areas that are pounding together without a cushion until the oil gets up to them. Regards. RW

 

[BOBISTHEOILGUY]

****,

Moly has a very high shear strength. I used the timken to play with this to see what it will take to breake the barrier lube. With the amsoil's zddp barrier lube, you can break through the barrier additive with hammering on the lever even while the oil was passing over the bearing. With moly, even with hammering on the lever, it did not shear out like the zddp.

Another point is this. Many fail to reconize that oil is sitting in the engine in different areas. When the engine is shutdown, oil still resides in the bearing area and some around the top and inbetween the ring area. These are the most critical areas to start with, but consider that the channels should aready maintain some oil given the oil filter maintains a good seal around the antidrain back valve. So, to start with, the only place the oil is not and cannot maintain is between the oil pan and the oil pump through the pickup tube. It will always drain back from there as there is no check valve in the pickup tube.
So when you first start any vehicle, you will always have a no oil condition for a slight moment. To get oil into the pickup to the pump so to start pushing oil around the engine doesn't take but a few seconds(5-20sec's). To prove this point, If you ever heard a bad fram filter that had let the oil drain back, you'll notice that the valve train rattle doesn't take much time for it to get the cusion back once started. Normally less than 5secs. Now factor in the cold oil, yes, it will take slightly longer but remember, all parts of this engine has some oil sitting in it and it too is thicker and thus will maintain a higher level of hydrodynamic property or cusion due to the thicken state until it reaches temp. So, don't forget, if the oil in the bottom of the engine is cold, so is the oil throughout the engine.

[ September 02, 2002, 10:45 AM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]

 

[TooSlick]

ex MGB,

You can use the Mobil 1, 5w-30 and 10w-30 interchangeably, so I'd just run whatever grade is on sale. For that matter, you could use their 0w-30 as well. I live down here in Alabama and most of my Amsoil customers run their 0w-30 synthetic year round. I have had excellent results doing this for the past seven years.

TooSlick