Mobil 1 15w50 Tri-syn on '89 BMW 2.5L

[jason07-1zzfe]

1989 BMW 325is
mi. on oil: 5,024
mi. on car: 156,628
sample date: 4/11/02
makeup oil added: ~1 qt.
Blackstone Labs
(In parenthesis are their universal averages. I believe this means same mfr and type of engine, i.e., here it would be all BMW 6 cyl's tested. But I may call them to clarify)

Aluminum 7 (5)
Chromium 2 (2)
Iron 22 (13)
Copper 13 (10)
Lead 3 (3)
Tin 0 (1)
Molybdenum 1 (37)
Nickel 0 (0)
Manganese 0 (1)
Silver 0 (0)
Titanium 0 (0)
Vanadium 0 (0)
Boron 45 (61)
Silicon 5 (6)
Sodium 9 (11)
Calcium 785 (1427)
Magnesium 1469 (837)
Phosphorous 871 (890)
Zinc 1078 (1076)
Barium 0 (3)

SUS Visc@210F 73.2
Flash 390F
Fuel Antifreeze 0.0%
Water 0.0%
Insolubles 0.5%
TBN 6.5

I would say I run my car very hard. It sees redline several times a day usually. The interval was through the winter months in Chicago area. Even was occasionally run hard
I am running Red Line 10w40 now and am going to get it tested on my 2nd drain of it after 5k miles also to compare. I was going to wait until I had both and post together, but Patman wanted some reports

. It'll be a good 8-10 months before I get it. I will also have 10w30 Supersyn on a 2000 GMC Jimmy after 5k in about 2 mo, then after another 5k whatever I decide to put in there if I am not impressed with the M1.

 

[BOBISTHEOILGUY]

Thanks for the analysis. This is what we need more of. I'm looking forward to the 10w30 supersyn oil analysis.

 

[MolaKule]

Hmmm!

I thought someone on the list said they called Mobil and Mobil 1 15W50 had like 80 ppm?

If Mobil 1 15W50 does have Moly, then maybe your engine may have plated-up.

As far as the waer metals, I wouldn't sweat it for hard driven car with that many miles.

Now if the "trend" shows some increase over the next couple of oil changes, then I would be concerned.

 

[MolaKule]

Opps!. That Moly comment was for Supersyn. I see you tested Tri-Syn.

 

[Spector]

Other then something to print out for Blackstone to show they are doing something their averages are pretty much useless, especially in the additive categories as all oils differ.

As each engine also differs the only numbers that matter are your own engines over time.

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Spector:
Other then something to print out for Blackstone to show they are doing something their averages are pretty much useless, especially in the additive categories as all oils differ.

As each engine also differs the only numbers that matter are your own engines over time.

---

I see what you are saying. It will vary depending on driving patterns and ambient conditions, etc. This was my first analysis, so I'll probably send it to Terry in the future.

But I do think it does have some value. From what I have seen the same types of engines wear similarly and you would be able to tell if it is way above or below norm for that type. For example, GM engines seem to be very high wearing, Nissan and BMW engines wear is fairly low. Honda/Acura tend to have high lead.

So I think it has some value, at least for someone that doesn't get to see hundreds of these a month. My car was pretty close to the averages, except for a little higher iron, but I drive my car very hard, so that makes sense. Coincedence? Doesn't seem like it to me.

 

[jjbula]

Jason,

I don't think it sheared to 30 weight.

They gave you a SUS at 210F. Different than the 100F viscosity.

How cold did it get and did 15w50 feel too thick?

Patman---You frequent those Firebird sites, anybody
post analysis for thicker than 10w30 oil?

[ August 02, 2002, 09:23 AM: Message edited by: jjbula ]

 

[Patman]

quote:

---

Originally posted by jjbula:
Jason,

I don't think it sheared to 30 weight.

---

You are correct, that number converted equals 13.87cst at 100c, so it's still not a 30 weight, although it is solidly a 40 weight. Had it gone below 12.5cst it would've been in the 30wt category. It thinned out quite a bit since it should be above 16.3cst in order to be a 50 weight!

quote:

---

Patman---You frequent those Firebird sites, anybody
post analysis for thicker than 10w30 oil?

---

Not so far. It's very rare to even see an analysis posted by these guys at all, but whenever they do, it's for 5w30 or 10w30 only. I wish I could see some LS1 or LT1 f-body oil analysis results using something like a 15w40 oil.

[ August 02, 2002, 09:37 AM: Message edited by: Patman ]

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

quote:

---

Originally posted by jjbula:
I don't think it sheared to 30 weight.

---

You're right. But it is darn close. I was just going visually by Bob's chart and it looked like it was the top of 30. But turns out it is really a very low 40.

Last winter was more mild but it still got to 10F or so a few times. Might have gone below that even. Worked great. No problems whatsoever. I wouldn't hesitate to use it year round again. But I went to 10w40 with Red Line because that is what they recommended, also all of Red Line's oils are supposed to be completely shear stable so using a 10w40 is like using a SAE 40. And that is the highest straight grade my manual recommends, good to >120F. For a multigrade at same temps (petro) it requires a 20w50.
And Red Line only recommends their 15w or 20w50's for sustained oil temps above 225F. Mine never gets near that in winter and actually haven't got it there in summer yet either. Probably never will since it has an oil cooler. Unless I do some serious track racing.

 

[jjbula]

have

quote:

---

Originally posted by Patman:
You are correct, that number converted equals 13.8in it is solidly a 40 weight. Had it gone below 12.5cst it would've been in the 30wt category. It thinned out quite a bit since it should be above 16.3cst in order to be a 50 weight!

---

In oil anaylsis we saw the Mercedes shear 0w40 from 14.4 to 11.7.
That engine did have 10K miles on it.

If I had a choice I would rather run 15w50 for wear the protection.

Both are still better than new M1 5w30 or 10w30 with
[ August 02, 2002, 04:33 PM: Message edited by: jjbula ]

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

quote:

---

Originally posted by GeorgeCLS:
.. Mobil 1 15W50 is extremely shear resistant...

---

I might be inclined to believe that have I not seen and heard of many cases of M1 5w30 and 0w40 shearing out of grade. This is not an isolated case for Mobil. And as I stated originally I could tell that it was thinning over time. Lab tests negative for fuel, a/f, etc... so it is not contamination. Due to shear. I am very confident that is correct viscosity.

I have Red Line in for over 3k now and doesn't seem to have thinned at all.

And I would tend to disagree about the viscoity choice, although if M1 had a 10w40 I may have considered it.

Someone, Molakule I think, stated about manufactures choosing to formulate with higher percentages of VII since the new VII are more shear resistant (but obviously not completely) so that they can run less esters and save money. I think we are now reaping the results of their frugality.

 

[Patman]

That's another thing about Mobil 1 I don't like. Every oil analysis I have seen on 5w30 Mobil 1 has shown it thinning out to a 20 weight, or at least very very close to a 20 weight. And to think that there are tons of guys out there in Corvettes that are running 5w30 Mobil 1, some of them even going the full 15,000 mile interval too! This is one case where my idea of an extended interval isn't helping these guys! That's why I always tell everyone to run 10w30.

 

[GeorgeCLS]

I review 100 or so oil analysis results a day and see very few Mobil 1 15W-50 analysis results that are out of grade. Thus my comments regarding the 'possibiity' of a lab error....
From a lube engineer's perspective, the 15W-50 was simply too high a viscosity for your engine application...

 

[sprintman]

GeorgeCLS
Nice to see you here. Saw some of your posts on if I remember correctly the VWVortex forum post 'attention Mobil 1 users' Very informative and much appreciated!

tks..s

 

[GeorgeCLS]

I would certainly agree that the use of the Mobil 1 50W was overkill and not needed for your application. the Mobil 1 0W-40 or 10W-30 would have been fine. I am concerned with the viscosity drop, however, and what caused it.. i.e. fuel dilution, af, etc. I have seen oil analysis for Mobil 1 15W-50 after a 500 mile race and was still within grade... I would lean towards a laboratory error/type vs. that much viscosity loss.. A similar error occurred with another person indicating a 60W when re-checked it was right on viscosity.. Mobil 1 15W50 is extremely shear resistant...
Some labs do hundreds of analysis a day and human error/Murphy will be present. Thus, we cannot treat a single oil analysis result as gospel. A similar error occured on one two weeks ago and when the individual had the lab check, it was a typo and indeed right on spec.

 

[Patman]

George, do you have any SuperSyn analysis results to share? We're all dying to see some here! Especially if there are results from the same vehicle running TriSynthetic to compare it to as well!

 

[Al]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Patman:
George, do you have any SuperSyn analysis results to share? We're all dying to see some here! Especially if there are results from the same vehicle running TriSynthetic to compare it to as well!

---

I'm with Patman here, its not as big of a concern for me now that I have decided to stray somewhat from Mobil 1. But I am still highly interested. I will be able to post a comparison within a month or so. It will be for a 01 GrandAm which is driven relatively easy. Still both samples will be 6K and a K&N oversize oil filter.

 

[Patman]

I too am straying from Mobil 1 (after the testing is done in my wife's car), although it's still of interest since I have so many friends on the net who use it, and no matter what I tell them they won't switch since it's convenient to get.

Same goes with my dad, he'll use Mobil 1 as long as Walmart and Canadian Tire still sell it up here. So I want to make sure the stuff is at least half decent.

 

[TooSlick]

I'd tend to agree with George about a 15w-50 being too thick for winter use, especially up north. I think the Mobil 1, 0w-40 or even 5w-30 would be a better choice. Given the number of miles on this engine, I would run 15w-50 in warm weather. I have several customers who run a 20w-50 synthetic in this motor with excellent results, but the weather is much warmed down here in Alabama.

Any thinning is probably due to fuel dilution, since you only have 5000 miles on this sample.

TooSlick

 

[GeorgeCLS]

Regarding Mobil 1 Tri-Syn to Super Syn analysis results. Unfortunately the results for the Mobil 1 transitioners from Tri-Syn to SuperSyn are for commercial fleets and I do not have the liberty of publishing their reports. These are the only ones I have reviewed that have enough mileage to be able to ascertain trends. These vehicles see the worst of the worst driving, with much stop and go, different drivers, etc. They are well serviced, however... And frankly, so far, no change in the oil analysis results whatsoever. All wear metals, viscosities, (all are 10W-30) are basically the same as previous analysis. I have not run particle counts or ferrographies on any of these units and no reason to at this point. We have several units with over 20,000 miles on the new formulation and over 100,000 miles on the engines.