Mobil 1 15W-50, '01 LS1 engine.

crainholio · Jun 16, 2004

The 5/15/04 data set on the right is Delvac-1 5W-40, the 6/11/04 data set on the left is Mobil-1 15W-50 with more miles and track time.

This was a road trip from NJ to Indianapolis, a day and a half of heavy road course racing, and the trip back to NJ.

I'm sticking with Mobil-1 15W-50 during the racing season, maybe drop back to 5W-40 for cooler off-season use.

I had cleaned and re-oiled my Green cotton-gauze air filters same time as I changed this oil, and the Si numbers fell quite a bit.

Comments appreciated.

jason07-1zzfe · Jun 16, 2004

How many miles?

crainholio · Jun 16, 2004

Whoops, guess that got covered up when I screen-shotted the PDF.

I put 1400 miles but that's an estimate based on mapquest mileage from my house to Indy hotel, from the hotel to the track and back each day, and from the hotel to my house. That got me 1,348 miles. I added up the estimated number of track laps to get that mileage, that got me an additional ~46 miles, so I rounded up to 1400 miles.

I flogged the engine pretty hard on the road course at Indy Raceway Park. We're talking five 25+ minute sessions of sustained WOT high revs, high speed downshifts, cornering at high revs, etc.

I'm waiting for the "15W-50 is too thick for LS1 engines" crowd to arrive.

[ June 17, 2004, 01:23 PM: Message edited by: crainholio ]

Patman · Jun 16, 2004

I'm one of those people who believe 15w50 is too thick for the LS1, but it's hard to say how it honestly did in this engine since it's such a short interval too. Plus when there is tons of road racing involved on an interval, it's also hard to compare it to other UOAs from the same engine.

To really see how it's doing, I'd love to see someone with at least 3k or better yet 5k on it, and with both street driving and drag racing or road racing mixed in.

If I didn't have so much GC on hand, I'd be tempted to try out 15w50 in my upcoming LS1 vehicle.

Another important factor here is the fact that the LS1 engine can see oil temps approaching 300 degrees when road racing, if no oil cooler is on it. So even when using a thick 50wt oil, in reality the thickness of the oil during that event is more like a 30wt oil. Take that same oil and put it under multiple cold starts and more normal 200-220F oil temps, and then it'll probably be too thick for best engine wear.

427Z06 · Jun 17, 2004

crainholio, looks like you found a good combination for your needs. I'd also look into GC 0w30 for winter months. (Although, I haven't tried this combination myself). If you don't do any hard driving/racing during the same period you might even consider M1 10w30. Best of luck to you.

crainholio · Jun 17, 2004

Thanks for the info guys. I also have a stash of GC here and run it in my '02 Silverado 4.8L.

I initially ran GC in LS1 here after the transplant, it was noisy during cold idle and operation...by cold I mean ambient temps in the 40-60degF range. It would quiet down as the engine got up to temp.

I switched to Delvac-1 and it was super quiet at all times. Same for this fill of 15W-50.

I have a few months of street-only use after the season ends in October, before it gets put to bed for the Winter...that will be Delvac-1 5W-40 time.

vettenuts · Jun 17, 2004

Interesting that it was noisy with GC and quiet with the thicker oils.

sprintman · Jun 17, 2004

I've found it's always that way, the thicker the quieter. 5W30 Penzzoil in my Mazda and M1 0W40 Tri Syn was 'rattly' to say the least. Staying with 5W50 for winter and 15W50 maybe for summer.

SSDude · Jun 17, 2004

Thanks for the UOA. I would like to see you run the M1 15-50 for 3,000 miles. That will let us know if it is really too thick for the LS1.

Bror Jace · Jun 17, 2004

For a road raced engine, I'd be happy with these results.

I guess I'd like to see what a 40 weight oil could do ... either a 15W40 (especially Schaeffer) or Mobil 1 5W40 ... perhaps with some Schaeffer #132 thrown in.

But you're good to go as is.

--- Bror Jace

PS - This is a fairly thin 50 weight oil ... so many of the anti-50-weight prejudices we have here probably shouldn't apply to this stuff. I show a 50 weight as being between 83.1-106.6 SUS.

[ June 18, 2004, 08:33 AM: Message edited by: Bror Jace ]

Schmoe · Jun 17, 2004

If your that worried or it seems a tad too thick, dump a couple of quarts of 5w30 in there along with the 15W-50 at next OCI. That's what I did on my F150 5.4l and will be doing a UOA tonight or tomorrow morning.

Last_Z · Jun 18, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Patman:
I'm one of those people who believe 15w50 is too thick for the LS1, but it's hard to say how it honestly did in this engine since it's such a short interval too. Plus when there is tons of road racing involved on an interval, it's also hard to compare it to other UOAs from the same engine.

To really see how it's doing, I'd love to see someone with at least 3k or better yet 5k on it, and with both street driving and drag racing or road racing mixed in.

If I didn't have so much GC on hand, I'd be tempted to try out 15w50 in my upcoming LS1 vehicle.

Another important factor here is the fact that the LS1 engine can see oil temps approaching 300 degrees when road racing, if no oil cooler is on it. So even when using a thick 50wt oil, in reality the thickness of the oil during that event is more like a 30wt oil. Take that same oil and put it under multiple cold starts and more normal 200-220F oil temps, and then it'll probably be too thick for best engine wear.

Pat,
I respectfully disagree with your entire post!

Patman · Jun 18, 2004

What's to disagree with? It's a fact that if you take 50wt oil and heat it to 300 degrees, it ends up being as thin as 30wt oil would be at normal operating temps.

Also, how can you disagree with the fact that road racing and street driving are two different things, and we need to see a UOA of 15w50 under street conditions for 3k or more to clearly know if it works?

Terry Dyson's opinion has to count also, and he recommends against running 50wt oils in a street driven LS1.

Shannow · Jun 18, 2004

Patman,
if a 50 weight at 300F is the same as a 30 weight at 200F, then it would make sense to me to run the 50 weight when the going gets tough.

As you say, it may not be the right thing on the street.

BTW, after being here for a few years, I doubt that you'll see me ever run as thick as 50 again.

Patman · Jun 18, 2004

The one thing about it is, if you're seeing 300F temps regularily, such as if you road race a lot, then an oil cooler is a better solution than a 50wt oil. Even in very hot weather, when you first start an engine with 15w50 or 20w50 oil, it will not provide as quick startup lubrication as a 0w, 5w or 10w oil would provide.

crainholio · Jun 18, 2004

I dunno about the oil cooler thing on an LS1 w/ a stock pump.

That little gerotor oil pump doesn't inspire much confidence in terms of adding a second plenum structure in series w/ the engine, which has to be filled and pressurized before the engine gets oil. There's just not much surplus in the pump's volume budget.

My only data on this is Bondurant again, they run coolers on the trans and axle but not the engine...that's a deliberate decision.

If I was upgrading to dry sump oiling, I'd add a cooler.

I saw a peak oil temp on the DIC of ~308degF while I was there, BTW.

Last_Z · Jun 19, 2004

quote:

I'm one of those people who believe 15w50 is too thick for the LS1, but it's hard to say how it honestly did in this engine since it's such a short interval too. Plus when there is tons of road racing involved on an interval, it's also hard to compare it to other UOAs from the same engine.

You almost make it sound as if 125 minutes of road racing is a walk in the park. If anything, this is the best test M1 15W-50 would ever get. What could possibly cause more wear than this abuse? M1 delivered exactly the way they advertise.....no more, no less!

quote:

To really see how it's doing, I'd love to see someone with at least 3k or better yet 5k on it, and with both street driving and drag racing or road racing mixed in.

Do you honestly think "mixed" driving would abuse the oil and the car more than 125 minutes of road racing? I find it hard to believe. Had he taken this oil to 3k regular driving miles with a few drag races, the wear would look better.

quote:

Another important factor here is the fact that the LS1 engine can see oil temps approaching 300 degrees when road racing, if no oil cooler is on it. So even when using a thick 50wt oil, in reality the thickness of the oil during that event is more like a 30wt oil. Take that same oil and put it under multiple cold starts and more normal 200-220F oil temps, and then it'll probably be too thick for best engine wear.

The owner used the right oil for the right conditions! If 50W is a 30W at 300*F, then what would 30W be? 10W?

NASCAR drivers "may" use a 0W-30....but their budget is bigger than our combined; not to mention the engine needs to make it a maximum of 500 miles and their sumps are something like 20qts.
M1 15W-50 has a pour point of 42-49*F.....this oil should be good for something like -15*F and up!

quote:

Also, how can you disagree with the fact that road racing and street driving are two different things, and we need to see a UOA of 15w50 under street conditions for 3k or more to clearly know if it works?

I currently have M1 15W-50 (straight) in my 02 Z28. I will do a UOA at 4K miles of mixed use. It might not reflect a 100% accurate report, since I replaced pistons, rings and rods a few thousand miles ago. We shall see!

quote:

Terry Dyson's opinion has to count also, and he recommends against running 50wt oils in a street driven LS1.

Terry's opinion is always counted on! However, numbers are numbers......and this reports proves 50W oil did an excellent job in this car.

The point I'm trying to make is that you seem to ignore the results in this UOA.
Once again, I respectfully disagree!

Patman · Jun 19, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Last_Z:
You almost make it sound as if 125 minutes of road racing is a walk in the park. If anything, this is the best test M1 15W-50 would ever get. What could possibly cause more wear than this abuse? M1 delivered exactly the way they advertise.....no more, no less!

I'm not saying it's going to be easy on the engine, I'm just pointing out the fact that with oil temps of 300 degrees, that 50wt oil was actually as thin as 30wt oil. So this report isn't honestly indicitive of how 50wt oil really performs. To see how 50wt really performs, we need to see it at normal oil temps.

quote:

Do you honestly think "mixed" driving would abuse the oil and the car more than 125 minutes of road racing? I find it hard to believe. Had he taken this oil to 3k regular driving miles with a few drag races, the wear would look better.

Mixed driving would give us a better idea of how the thicker oil responds to cold starting though, and that's another area where I think the thick oil hurts a street driven engine. Even if it's 100F outside, that thicker oil on a cold start won't flow as well as a 0w30, 5w30 or 10w30 would. But even when the oil is at operating temp, the 50wt oil won't flow as well at 200 degrees as a high 30 to low 40wt oil will. The LS1 seems to love the high 30 to low 40wt.

quote:

The owner used the right oil for the right conditions! If 50W is a 30W at 300*F, then what would 30W be? 10W?

NASCAR drivers "may" use a 0W-30....but their budget is bigger than our combined; not to mention the engine needs to make it a maximum of 500 miles and their sumps are something like 20qts.
M1 15W-50 has a pour point of 42-49*F.....this oil should be good for something like -15*F and up!

I totally agree that he's using the right oil for the situation. I'm merely pointing out that this report doesn't prove that 15w50 is safe in a daily driven LS1, since these aren't daily driven conditions here.

quote:

I currently have M1 15W-50 (straight) in my 02 Z28. I will do a UOA at 4K miles of mixed use. It might not reflect a 100% accurate report, since I replaced pistons, rings and rods a few thousand miles ago. We shall see!

This is what I want to see, is more people who run the 15w50 in a street driven LS1 to give us some UOAs. There simply aren't enough LS1 owners on the other message boards who are doing UOAs. Out of the 40,000 some odd LS1 members on the two big sites, why is it that so many are interested in oil but precious few are willing to spend $20 to do a UOA? They simply want me to answer their question as to the best oil.

quote:

Terry's opinion is always counted on! However, numbers are numbers......and this reports proves 50W oil did an excellent job in this car.

The point I'm trying to make is that you seem to ignore the results in this UOA.
Once again, I respectfully disagree!

I'm not disagreeing with you there. I do believe the numbers are good here. I just am not willing to believe that a 15w50 oil in normal street driving would show as good of a result as an oil in the 12 to 14 cst range.

[ June 19, 2004, 08:15 PM: Message edited by: Patman ]

Mobil 1 15W-50, '01 LS1 engine.

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