Mobil 1 0w20 or TGMO 0w20?

[UNC151]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Caterham makes a perfectly valid point in that any oil is too thick at startup at any ambient temperature you'll find on this planet.

Then I must ask--what is the point? This suggests that any oil is too thick at start-up so the miniscule differences between any of them become immeasurable and irrelevant. I know that we love splitting hairs on the site, but sometimes it seems pointless to do so--particularly in this instance where any oil would suffice.

Just my

 

[DragRace]

Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Caterham makes a perfectly valid point in that any oil is too thick at startup at any ambient temperature you'll find on this planet.

Then I must ask--what is the point? This suggests that any oil is too thick at start-up so the miniscule differences between any of them become immeasurable and irrelevant. I know that we love splitting hairs on the site, but sometimes it seems pointless to do so--particularly in this instance where any oil would suffice.

Just my

I talked to some engine builders about this a few weeks ago.Their comment basically was,you get oil pressure instantly,worrying about the slightest thickness differences between oils is a waste of time - period.The body and frame,etc will be long gone before having to worry about such a small difference.

 

[gregk24]

Originally Posted By: DragRace
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Caterham makes a perfectly valid point in that any oil is too thick at startup at any ambient temperature you'll find on this planet.

Then I must ask--what is the point? This suggests that any oil is too thick at start-up so the miniscule differences between any of them become immeasurable and irrelevant. I know that we love splitting hairs on the site, but sometimes it seems pointless to do so--particularly in this instance where any oil would suffice.

Just my

I talked to some engine builders about this a few weeks ago.Their comment basically was,you get oil pressure instantly,worrying about the slightest thickness differences between oils is a waste of time - period.The body and frame,etc will be long gone before having to worry about such a small difference.


Ill say this, oil pressure is just that...pressure, it has nothing to do with overall lubrication, the valve train and cylinder walls dont operate on oil pressure. Just because the bearings have oil pressure does not mean the rest of the engine is being lubricated. When I started up the Accord this morning after chipping away the ice (lol), It made some nasty clacking and ticking noises until the oil got to where it needed to be, and thats with 0w20, I cant imagine how a 5w30 or more would fare in such conditions...actually I can, I started up the Silverado we have that runs 5w30 conventional and it turned over pretty slow and didnt fire up like it should. Anyway enough ranting, different oil weights do make a difference, a measurable difference at that.

 

[DragRace]

Originally Posted By: gregk24
Originally Posted By: DragRace
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Caterham makes a perfectly valid point in that any oil is too thick at startup at any ambient temperature you'll find on this planet.

Then I must ask--what is the point? This suggests that any oil is too thick at start-up so the miniscule differences between any of them become immeasurable and irrelevant. I know that we love splitting hairs on the site, but sometimes it seems pointless to do so--particularly in this instance where any oil would suffice.

Just my

I talked to some engine builders about this a few weeks ago.Their comment basically was,you get oil pressure instantly,worrying about the slightest thickness differences between oils is a waste of time - period.The body and frame,etc will be long gone before having to worry about such a small difference.


Ill say this, oil pressure is just that...pressure, it has nothing to do with overall lubrication, the valve train and cylinder walls dont operate on oil pressure. Just because the bearings have oil pressure does not mean the rest of the engine is being lubricated. When I started up the Accord this morning after chipping away the ice (lol), It made some nasty clacking and ticking noises until the oil got to where it needed to be, and thats with 0w20, I cant imagine how a 5w30 or more would fare in such conditions...actually I can, I started up the Silverado we have that runs 5w30 conventional and it turned over pretty slow and didnt fire up like it should. Anyway enough ranting, different oil weights do make a difference, a measurable difference at that.


If your having "issues" starting your vehicles in the climate in florida,you've got battery problems,because it does not get as cold as what it does elsewhere such as the midwestern states where we see temps as low as -20 degree F at night during the winter.Also startup noises are normal believe it or not.

 

[901Memphis]

5w30 synthetics do fine in cold weather.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: gregk24
Originally Posted By: DragRace
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Caterham makes a perfectly valid point in that any oil is too thick at startup at any ambient temperature you'll find on this planet.

Then I must ask--what is the point? This suggests that any oil is too thick at start-up so the miniscule differences between any of them become immeasurable and irrelevant. I know that we love splitting hairs on the site, but sometimes it seems pointless to do so--particularly in this instance where any oil would suffice.

Just my

I talked to some engine builders about this a few weeks ago.Their comment basically was,you get oil pressure instantly,worrying about the slightest thickness differences between oils is a waste of time - period.The body and frame,etc will be long gone before having to worry about such a small difference.


Ill say this, oil pressure is just that...pressure, it has nothing to do with overall lubrication, the valve train and cylinder walls dont operate on oil pressure. Just because the bearings have oil pressure does not mean the rest of the engine is being lubricated. When I started up the Accord this morning after chipping away the ice (lol), It made some nasty clacking and ticking noises until the oil got to where it needed to be, and thats with 0w20, I cant imagine how a 5w30 or more would fare in such conditions...actually I can, I started up the Silverado we have that runs 5w30 conventional and it turned over pretty slow and didnt fire up like it should. Anyway enough ranting, different oil weights do make a difference, a measurable difference at that.


Weird, you know I had none of those issues up here with 5w-40 in the sump of the M5 when it was close to -30..... I mean a guy in Florida talking about "cold starts" is a tad amusing from that perspective

 

[DragRace]

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: gregk24
Originally Posted By: DragRace
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Caterham makes a perfectly valid point in that any oil is too thick at startup at any ambient temperature you'll find on this planet.

Then I must ask--what is the point? This suggests that any oil is too thick at start-up so the miniscule differences between any of them become immeasurable and irrelevant. I know that we love splitting hairs on the site, but sometimes it seems pointless to do so--particularly in this instance where any oil would suffice.

Just my

I talked to some engine builders about this a few weeks ago.Their comment basically was,you get oil pressure instantly,worrying about the slightest thickness differences between oils is a waste of time - period.The body and frame,etc will be long gone before having to worry about such a small difference.


Ill say this, oil pressure is just that...pressure, it has nothing to do with overall lubrication, the valve train and cylinder walls dont operate on oil pressure. Just because the bearings have oil pressure does not mean the rest of the engine is being lubricated. When I started up the Accord this morning after chipping away the ice (lol), It made some nasty clacking and ticking noises until the oil got to where it needed to be, and thats with 0w20, I cant imagine how a 5w30 or more would fare in such conditions...actually I can, I started up the Silverado we have that runs 5w30 conventional and it turned over pretty slow and didnt fire up like it should. Anyway enough ranting, different oil weights do make a difference, a measurable difference at that.



Greg. You can't be serious. If your silverado showed any difference in startability then you've got battery problems or something.
And you've got a 0w-20 in your accord and you truly convinced yourself that that accord made strange noises due to your ambient temps.
I've heard it all now,and I mean everything.
My charger starts everyday,with 5w-20 at ambient temps than get colder than -20 without windchill. My girls windstar has 5w-20 in the same climate. My work van has 5w30 in it with those same ambient temps and I can tell you with absolute honestly that they sound the exact same starting with ambient temps that low as they do in the summer.
And cranking speed is absolutely unaffected as well.
Only once ambient temps dip below -25c do any of my vehicles show any signs of slower cranking and maybe some funny top end noises and all of my vehicles are running a 5w-XX.
So if you're experiencing funny sounds and slow cranking in Florida then I suggest taking your vehicles into an expert and have them fix what's broken,because something is broken if what your saying is true.
I've got a 1999 silverado Z71 with a 5.3. That truck will start up until -40c creeps in,with good ole Pennzoil Conventional and sounds exactly the same when being started at 30c in the summer and -25 in the winter,so if your truck is exhibiting signs as you've described then I suggest taking it in too.

 

[turtlevette]

Originally Posted By: Clevy

I've got a 1999 silverado Z71 with a 5.3. That truck will start up until -40c creeps in,with good ole Pennzoil Conventional and sounds exactly the same when being started at 30c in the summer and -25 in the winter


Your hearing may be going. It's the second thing to go. All my cars, including many rentals I've driven make more noise and strange noises in the cold.

 

[gregk24]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: gregk24
Originally Posted By: DragRace
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4

Caterham makes a perfectly valid point in that any oil is too thick at startup at any ambient temperature you'll find on this planet.

Then I must ask--what is the point? This suggests that any oil is too thick at start-up so the miniscule differences between any of them become immeasurable and irrelevant. I know that we love splitting hairs on the site, but sometimes it seems pointless to do so--particularly in this instance where any oil would suffice.

Just my

I talked to some engine builders about this a few weeks ago.Their comment basically was,you get oil pressure instantly,worrying about the slightest thickness differences between oils is a waste of time - period.The body and frame,etc will be long gone before having to worry about such a small difference.



Greg. You can't be serious. If your silverado showed any difference in startability then you've got battery problems or something.
And you've got a 0w-20 in your accord and you truly convinced yourself that that accord made strange noises due to your ambient temps.
I've heard it all now,and I mean everything.
My charger starts everyday,with 5w-20 at ambient temps than get colder than -20 without windchill. My girls windstar has 5w-20 in the same climate. My work van has 5w30 in it with those same ambient temps and I can tell you with absolute honestly that they sound the exact same starting with ambient temps that low as they do in the summer.
And cranking speed is absolutely unaffected as well.
Only once ambient temps dip below -25c do any of my vehicles show any signs of slower cranking and maybe some funny top end noises and all of my vehicles are running a 5w-XX.
So if you're experiencing funny sounds and slow cranking in Florida then I suggest taking your vehicles into an expert and have them fix what's broken,because something is broken if what your saying is true.
I've got a 1999 silverado Z71 with a 5.3. That truck will start up until -40c creeps in,with good ole Pennzoil Conventional and sounds exactly the same when being started at 30c in the summer and -25 in the winter,so if your truck is exhibiting signs as you've described then I suggest taking it in too.


No I am being serious, both vehicles cranked over slow and the Accord made some nice clacking noises for a couple seconds. Its no biggie because it does not happen often. I did have some concerns about my battery though, I took it in to autozone and they tested it and said it was a little discharged but not enough to have any problems.

 

[Garak]

Well, the slow cranking shouldn't be happening to you down there. Noises, well, cars make different noises at different temperatures and depending how long they've been sitting, and so forth. Some sound the same in the bitter cold, some don't.

However, a cold snap will very quickly demonstrate any weaknesses in your charging and starting components.

 

[cp3]

Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Caterham makes a perfectly valid point in that any oil is too thick at startup at any ambient temperature you'll find on this planet.

Then I must ask--what is the point? This suggests that any oil is too thick at start-up so the miniscule differences between any of them become immeasurable and irrelevant. I know that we love splitting hairs on the site, but sometimes it seems pointless to do so--particularly in this instance where any oil would suffice.

Just my

But really isn't the majority of what we discuss pointless? Why should VI be any different?

As for the cold starts....I wish I could say I don't see a difference at -20C but the fact is I do and have in most of the vehicles I've owned.

 

[gregk24]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Well, the slow cranking shouldn't be happening to you down there. Noises, well, cars make different noises at different temperatures and depending how long they've been sitting, and so forth. Some sound the same in the bitter cold, some don't.

However, a cold snap will very quickly demonstrate any weaknesses in your charging and starting components.

Would a larger battery help?

 

[Brent_G]

A healthy battery will. OEM size should start it down to some pretty chilly temps.

As for oil i cant really notice a difference in the F150 between 0w20 OE and 5w40 PU until around -10 or so. Still started fine at -20 this Monday and -30 earlier this year without being plugged in.

 

[k24a4]

Greg, my k24 has been cranking slow for 10 years now. The engine is notorious for that, and has done it since day one. When it was new my neighbor, a former mechanic, though I would say quite far from an ASE Master Tech, thought something was wrong with the car, and suggested I get the fuel pump or starter looked at. Some have put in the bigger V6 battery and say it helps, I have not. I'm on my second battery after getting more than 7 years out of the OEM.

Ditto the "clacking" or piston slap. The engine is known for it. Like others have said, your engine will outlast the car. Even on house brand dino. Quite probably even on PQIA banned oil.

FWIW, I tried Honda 0w-20 sm in my Accord and was not impressed with the elevated Al and TBN retention. This highly touted high VI high Moly oil was no great shakes in my application. The engine did not like it, and I got a better report on the old Pennzoil conventional. The piston slap lasted longer and was louder on it (hence the elevated Al?). If I didn't have a stash of synthetic purchased at conventional prices or below, I'd run Pennzoil conventional all day every day. The k24 is easy on oil. I've seen used oil analysis on conventional that look just as good if not better than those on syn, and some of the conventional runs were with 5w30.

I know our make and model was back spec'd for 0w-20 but I won't be going back to it any time soon. My Accord is perfectly happy with the recommended 5w-20 and is running just fine in this Winter's "Arctic Vortex" temps. When the car goes, the engine will be the least of my worries, of this I am sure.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: gregk24


No I am being serious, both vehicles cranked over slow and the Accord made some nice clacking noises for a couple seconds. Its no biggie because it does not happen often. I did have some concerns about my battery though, I took it in to autozone and they tested it and said it was a little discharged but not enough to have any problems.


Then you probably need a battery. Check my recent Expedition battery thread for a similar experience I had recently.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: gregk24
When I started up the Accord this morning after chipping away the ice (lol), It made some nasty clacking and ticking noises until the oil got to where it needed to be, and thats with 0w20, I cant imagine how a 5w30 or more would fare in such conditions...actually I can, I started up the Silverado we have that runs 5w30 conventional and it turned over pretty slow and didnt fire up like it should. Anyway enough ranting, different oil weights do make a difference, a measurable difference at that.


Funny, from all the sties about how great the 0w20 oil are, I would think that your enigne would start up and sound like it was 70F outside.

Your car is the same age as my Mazda 3 and similar mileage and you say that it made clanking noises on 0w20 in Florida weather. I would like to know what the ambient temp was.
I can tell you that my Mazda 3, which had nothing but 5w20 and 5w30 mostly dino its whole life, starts to sound clunky at about 14F or below.

Your perception of oil and how it lubricates the internals of the engine is just that perception and how nothing to do the with actual engine lubrication.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: gregk24
Would a larger battery help?

Certainly, but a newer battery and ensuring all the connections are up to par will do the trick. My F-150 has a larger than normal battery in there, but that's only because a previous owner butchered the tray. None of my other vehicles over the years had oversized batteries.

 

[andrewg]

As a side comment here about Mobil 1 vs. TGMO 0w-20.......I just recently switched from the Toyota oil to the Mobil. Why? The only reason was the ease and convenience of getting the Mobil oil. In all honesty I don't think either oil would make any difference over the lifetime of my vehicles. But....I would also have to say that the TGMO had numbers and an add pack that I feel is slightly better for my uses....but not enough to matter in any logical way. I'm no big fan of any particular oil brand (except maybe Red Line). In the past I did experience some 'chatter' noises from previous vehicles using Mobil 1 products. When switching to any different oils the chatter would always cease. So.......this time when I was switching from the TGMO to the Mobil 1 I half expected some of that engine noise. But not this time. Both cars (Ridgeline and Focus) sounded identical to the TGMO at startup and at temp.
So....I'll just stick with Mobil 1 from now on. Easier to get, readily available, and none of the engine noises I had heard in the past while using it.

 

[pbm]

If I had a car spec'd for 0w20 I would use the Mobil 1 over the TGMO if I lived in Florida, Texas, (warm states) etc....I'd probably choose the TGMO if I lived in Canada, Buffalo ,Wisconsin
(areas that see sub-zero temps)....that's just me....