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Mobil 1 0w-30 ESP
- Thread starter DuckRyder
- Start date
Right, Their 0w ESP grades have a higher oxidation value (0w-20, 0w-30, & 0w-40).
Didn't dig for it, but what is the virgin oxidation for the 5W-30 ESP? I do remember that the 5W has a slightly better Noack over the 0W. Maybe attributable to the increased esters. Dunno.
That's a two year old analysis. I understand that the formulation has been changed/upgraded since then. Can someone verify or dispel that?
No that is current. It changed in July of 2023 or around that time. Oxidation is 11. Noack is 8.6%. There are about a dozen or more VOA's of this oil across Europe and US. They're all the same now. This is Mobil 1 ESP 5w30 SP.
I don't think it's worse. It's just different. It could be worse, but I don't think it is.
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Isn't a TBN of 6.7 kinda low for a M1 oil or is this how they formulate it ?
TBN is kind of a relic now.
Consider this from SonofJoe:
"A lot of folks misunderstand the logic for putting over-based metallic detergents in oil (the stuff that largely gives an oil its TBN & the bulk of its Ash). It has almost nothing to do with 'cleaning' or high sulphur fuels. The first 5 TBN is usually there for rust prevention as defined by the Ball Rust Test. This might get raised to about 8 TBN to neutralise the complex carboxylic acids that form when base oils oxidise as they get exposed to hot, reactive blow-by gas. Typically 8 TBN is way too much for oil in normal service but it would definitely all get used up in the severe industry oxidation tests like the Sequence IIIG.
There's no harm in buying oils with 10+ TBN but TBH, there's not a lot of benefit to be gained either. The fact is that modern base oils (Groups II/III/IV/V) are massively more resistant to oxidation than old fashioned Group Is. If they're not breaking down, then there's nothing for the detergent to neutralise, so any excess just sits in the oil, doing naff all, until it's time to throw the oil away."
"One other thing... Most folks would consider an engine oil to be shot when the TBN reaches 2 - 3. This isn't actually the case. An oil can function quite happily with a TBN of zero. The thing you have to remember is that oil formulators don't tend to focus directly on stuff like TBN depletion, acid formation or oil oxidation. What they're really concerned with is the onset of exponential viscosity increase. For many of the lengthy, industry standard engine based oxidation tests, it's both impractical and uneconomic to just use over based detergent to control oxidation. Given how fast it can deplete, you might need an oil with a starting TBN of around 20 to keep the TBN above 2 at the end of the test! For this reason, modern oils contain a cocktail of various Antioxidant chemistries, each of which plays a role in keeping the oil from 'breaking' long after the TBN reserve has been exhausted. Just to be clear, there's nothing wrong per se with changing out your oil when the TBN hits 2 - 3 but if you do a UOA, and find the oil's TBN is zero, it's not something to freak out about."
Patman
Staff member
I’m sure M1 knows what they’re doing but I am a little disappointed that some of the specs on the new formula of ESP 5w30 are not quite the same as the original ESP Formula. Most notibly the sulfated ash used to be 0.6 and is now 0.8. Noack was under 6% before, and the HTHS was slightly higher (3.58 vs 3.5) So even though it still has all of the same approvals, I can’t help but wonder if the previous formula was the better one. I know that oils usually get better with each new formula but then I also remember that Castrol 0w30 is not the same as it was when it was GC 0w30 (AKA Formula SLX from Germany) That being said, I will continue using ESP 5w30 in the Vette, but I’m going to be sad when I drain out the current fill, which is ESP Formula produced in 2018
No problem. I just don't think it's worse than the prior version, but it's certainly possible.
This may not mean much but there was a guy on the ROC site that said it seems to handle heat better in his testing fwiw. Who knows....
"I don't see any problems in the new one. The polymer thickener, we tested, is strong. Molybdenum was replaced with an organic modifier - the coefficient of friction is the same as the old one. Esters were removed - so they were both a plus and a minus of the old ESP - it lost its alkaline properties faster. Mobil1 is a progressive company and progress in their products should be. I think we will learn a lot more good things about the new ESP in the end." - ROC
Time will tell I guess....
Time will tell I guess....
Low sulphur fuels reduce the amount of acidic blow-by contaminates which react with the oil and cause oxidation. This reduces the amount of metallic based detergents which itself extends the life of DPF/OPF.
Can someone explain why we are talking about 5/30 on an 0/30 VOA.
Agreed, TBN is much less important than it used to be.
You're choosing some numbers from the entirety of an analysis, and those numbers, while not as good as some earlier numbers, are only different by some fraction, perhaps within the margin of error for the test. Since the differences are small, might they not be within the acceptable tolorence range determined by the blender. Rarely are different batches identical. Might a different test result in "better" numbers. These numbers are never absolutes. We've seen tests from different labs result in different numbers. We've seen different tests from the same lab result in different numbers.
Patman
Staff member
Because we often compare the differences between the 5w30 and the 0w30 and some people might be considering the 0w30 over the 5w30 due to its ester content. So a lot of the threads that are about the 0w30 end up with discussion of the 5w30 as well
Natural comparison bcs BITOG
.Great info. Thx.
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