Mobil 0w-30 SHC Long Drain for 2005 ?

[Motorbike]

I was thinking demand might be enough to bring this VW-Audi gas/diesel oil into the States so what do you think.... is it a maybe ?

Mobils data sheet says it's a 18k mile or two year service oil for gas motors. I sure would like to see them offer it here in the USA .

as it seems a sure fit for many gas motors made these days and I would flog them with emails but coming from one address I think they might get wise to it

http://www.mobil.com/Luxemburg-English/Lubes/PDS/EUXXENPVLMOMobilSHCFormulaLD_0W-30.asp

 

[Motorbike]

Back when I heard Mobil was making a new OTC 5w-40 I was hoping this one was what we would get

http://www.mobil.com/Singapore-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOSynt_S_5W-40.asp

 

[moribundman]

Hmm, for a full synthetic 5W-40 Mobil Synt S 5W-40's HTHS of 3.6 is disappointing and not any higher than the one of M1 0W-40 or GC, both of which have an HTHS of 3.6.

 

[buster]

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Hmm, for a full synthetic 5W-40 Mobil Synt S 5W-40's HTHS of 3.6 is disappointing and not any higher than the one of M1 0W-40 or GC, both of which have an HTHS of 3.6.

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This 5w-40 does seem more fit for cars and is more thin on start up then SUV. I would just use the 0w-40 in this case being they are so similar. Right now the Amsoil AFL looks like a good balance for a 5w-40. But can we trust the numbers?

BTW, the Penzoil 5w-40 synthetic has a HT/HS of only 3.9.

The 0w30 long life is barely a 30wt (fuel efficiency). Probably a well formulated oil like most Mobil oils. Mobil needs to start making an A3 rated 30wt oil IMO.

 

[moribundman]

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The 0w30 long life is barely a 30wt (fuel efficiency).

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I don't think it's thin for improved fuel effciency, at least not primarily, but to allow for thickening over extended drain periods.

 

[Primus]

quote:
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Hmm, for a full synthetic 5W-40 Mobil Synt S 5W-40's HTHS of 3.6 is disappointing and not any higher than the one of M1 0W-40 or GC, both of which have an HTHS of 3.6.
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This is last years oil trend: oils are formulated with fuel economy in mind. Many brand oil that had 3.90-4.10 now have 3.60-3.80

 

[Motorbike]

quote:

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Originally posted by moribundman:
Hmm, for a full synthetic 5W-40 Mobil Synt S 5W-40's HTHS of 3.6 is disappointing and not any higher than the one of M1 0W-40 or GC, both of which have an HTHS of 3.6.

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It just goes with the viscosity . Both the Mobil 0w30 Supersyn and the Mobil 1R 0w30 come in at 2.99 and the Mobil Racing oil has far more anti-wear .

HT/HS is but one part of the data given and 2.6 will protect just about any lower end bearing if fed enough oil pressure . Above and beyond that need enter additional anti-wear .

Actually there's a member here with pretty much a street driven Mustang race car that had enough time on it to need a refresh because the rings were worn . The bearings and valve train were good on tear down .... the oil ? Mobil 0w30 SuperSyn all it's life .

Mobil 1 Racing 0w30 HT/HS

Mobil 0w30 SuperSyn HT/HS

I agree with Primus that most of these oils are being reformulated a bit lighter and are using better base oils to compensate .

I agree with Buster maybe Mobil needs them an A3 SuperSyn for those that need the vi but the topic oil meeting spec GM-LL-A-025 says alot IMO .

Here's the new Castrol SLX Long Life II that competes with the topic Mobil
9.8cSt @ 100c - it's green !

SLX II product description

[ December 26, 2004, 11:00 AM: Message edited by: Motorbike ]

 

[moribundman]

1. What's the highest HTHS an xW-30 oil* can possibly have? About 3.6?

2. What's the lowest HTHS an xW-40 oil* can possibly have? Also about 3.6?

* full synthetic

 

[jsharp]

quote:

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Originally posted by Motorbike:

quote:

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Originally posted by moribundman:
Hmm, for a full synthetic 5W-40 Mobil Synt S 5W-40's HTHS of 3.6 is disappointing and not any higher than the one of M1 0W-40 or GC, both of which have an HTHS of 3.6.

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It just goes with the viscosity . Both the Mobil 0w30 Supersyn and the Mobil 1R 0w30 come in at 2.99 and the Mobil Racing oil has far more anti-wear .

HT/HS is but one part of the data given and 2.6 will protect just about any lower end bearing if fed enough oil pressure . Above and beyond that need enter additional anti-wear .

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This brings up a question I've had and never really seen answered. If you have sufficient oil pressure and temperatures are under control, what advantage does extra viscosity have. It seems like all you'll see with a thicker oil is still higher oil pressure and decreased flow with corresponding increases in heat, and increased drag...

 

[moribundman]

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This brings up a question I've had and never really seen answered. If you have sufficient oil pressure and temperatures are under control, what advantage does extra viscosity have. It seems like all you'll see with a thicker oil is still higher oil pressure and decreased flow with corresponding increases in heat, and increased drag...

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The oil pump on my Audi is capable of putting out 200 psi, and yet oil with a minimum HTHS of 3.5 is required. Maybe this requirement is just chicanery?

 

[jsharp]

quote:

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Originally posted by moribundman:

quote:

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This brings up a question I've had and never really seen answered. If you have sufficient oil pressure and temperatures are under control, what advantage does extra viscosity have. It seems like all you'll see with a thicker oil is still higher oil pressure and decreased flow with corresponding increases in heat, and increased drag...

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The oil pump on my Audi is capable of putting out 200 psi, and yet oil with a minimum HTHS of 3.5 is required. Maybe this requirement is just chicanery?

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No, I'm sure there's a reason some engines might require it. The question is, what is is? Temperatures? Small bearings vs. the loads? It's obviously not an advantage 100% of the time or we'd all be running 50 weights because of the better UOA's they'd consistently show. Thicker A3 CG shows higher bearing metals in my Toyota UOA's than thinner M1...

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by moribundman:
1. What's the highest HTHS an xW-30 oil* can possibly have? About 3.6?

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IIRC, Redline claims 3.8 HTHS for both it's 5w30 and 10w30.

 

[buster]

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Thicker A3 CG shows higher bearing metals in my Toyota UOA's than thinner M1...

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Right. Viscosity is just one factor. Mobil 1 R is designed the way it is for a reason. 16qts of this oil go into Ryan Newman's NASCAR where it sees sustained 8-9k rpm driving. The oil probably will thicken but still be thin enough not to rob HP. An oil like Amsoil in this car would end up robbing HP. I'm guessing that is the point of M1R's HT/HS.

[ December 26, 2004, 02:23 PM: Message edited by: buster ]

 

[Michael SR]

quote:

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Originally posted by Patman:

quote:

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Originally posted by moribundman:
1. What's the highest HTHS an xW-30 oil* can possibly have? About 3.6?

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IIRC, Redline claims 3.8 HTHS for both it's 5w30 and 10w30.

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schaeffer's also claims 3.8 for their #156 (using ASTM D-4683). they claim a 5.0 for #256 SAE 30, but it's no a "W" oil.

-michael

 

[moribundman]

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IIRC, Redline claims 3.8 HTHS for both it's 5w30 and 10w30.

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But doesn't Red Line also use a different standard for determining HTHS?

It wasn't my intent to turn this into a higher versus low HTHS debate. We have long ago established that low HTHS oil is fine in the prper application. I was rather wondering if the tendency to design oil with a lower HTHS was more due to the need to create oil suitable for extended drain than oil that delivers superior fuel economy. Or maybe it is an attempt at killing two birds with one stone. I am aware of VW/Audi being very afraid of oil thickening (see their brutal oil test sequence), and oil thickening seems to be one problem in exteneded drain applications. Looking at newer VW oil specs, the trend goes towards extended drain with lower HTHS oils (VW 503.00 and VW 506.00). It may be nothing more than speculation on my part, but I would think that making the engines last despite extended drain intervals takes priority over increased fuel economy. If improved fuel economy were the primary driving factor in using low HTHS oil, why don't we see lower HTHS oils across the board?

[ December 26, 2004, 05:24 PM: Message edited by: moribundman ]

 

[moribundman]

I found just this information (source unknown, sloppy copy-and-paste job) about low HTHS diesel oil (B1, B2, B3, B4):

High and irregular load increase bearing wear in diesel engines diproportionally when the HTHS falls below 3.5 mPas. However, modern diesel engines achieve their best fuel economy when oil with an HTHS of 2.9-3.0 mPas is used.

That sounds once again like a fine balancing act between still acceptable wear and best fuel economy.


P.S: Most 5W-40 synthetic and semi-synthetics seem to have an HTHS between 3.50 and 4.10.

 

[moribundman]

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The oil probably will thicken but still be thin enough not to rob HP.

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buster, oil thickening may not be much of an issue in racing oil, which gets changed after every race. Extended drain applications have to put up with many other factors over a long period: moisture, oxidation, etc. Racing oils may get hot, but they don't remain in the engine long enough to suffer from those long-term effects.

Oil thickening may well one of the worst things that can happen in a extended drain application. Why? First of all, the thickening of the oil would make the fuel savings of the thin oil little more than a joke, because the fuel saving effect would be lost way before the oil is ever changed. And thickening of oil is a sludge precursor.

 

[Steve S]

quote:

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Originally posted by moribundman:
I found just this information (source unknown, sloppy copy-and-paste job) about low HTHS diesel oil (B1, B2, B3, B4):

High and irregular load increase bearing wear in diesel engines diproportionally when the HTHS falls below 3.5 mPas. However, modern diesel engines achieve their best fuel economy when oil with an HTHS of 2.9-3.0 mPas is used.

That sounds once again like a fine balancing act between still acceptable wear and best fuel economy.


P.S: Most 5W-40 synthetic and semi-synthetics seem to have an HTHS between 3.50 and 4.10.

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It is all balance ie. the most hp before the motor blows. The best gas mileage and still have the motor run good, the least emissions and have the motor run smooth, The least quality built into the car and have the consumers still not know the difference. It is the ying and yang or is it the yang and ying?

 

[buster]

quote:

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buster, oil thickening may not be much of an issue in racing oil, which gets changed after every race. Extended drain applications have to put up with many other factors over a long period: moisture, oxidation, etc. Racing oils may get hot, but they don't remain in the engine long enough to suffer from those long-term effects.

Oil thickening may well one of the worst things that can happen in a extended drain application. Why? First of all, the thickening of the oil would make the fuel savings of the thin oil little more than a joke, because the fuel saving effect would be lost way before the oil is ever changed. And thickening of oil is a sludge precursor.

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Thats a good point. I really don't know. I wonder if Amsoil leaves behind a dirtier engine due to it's constant thickening?

[ December 26, 2004, 07:03 PM: Message edited by: buster ]

 

[moribundman]

quote:

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It is all balance ie. the most hp before the motor blows. The best gas mileage and still have the motor run good, the least emissions and have the motor run smooth, The least quality built into the car and have the consumers still not know the difference. It is the ying and yang or is it the yang and ying?

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I agree on the balancing act, but I don't agree on all cars being built with the least quality into them.

quote:

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Thats a good point. I really don't know. I wonder if Amsoil leaves behind a dirtier engine due to it's constant thickening?

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There are limits on how much an oil is allowed to thicken, but that still leaves the possibility open for other factors contributing to additional thickening, or maybe other factors, like fuel dilution, counteracting any thickening. Ever wonder in what condition oil is after 20k miles? Maybe it's little more than fuel-diluted sludge.