MMO, the real deal.

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Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: rdalek
Reminder for MolaKule. You are on my ignore list so I don't see or have any interest in anything you post. Period.



Then you'll never learn about how wrong you are. Pity.


Again, I have zero interest is anything he posts. I don't care if you quote what he posts or not. Unless someone I trust can say he has proven something, I have no interest in a single thing he says. However, if you want to continue doing this in a attempt to harass me, I'll add you to the ignore list. He has yet to prove a single thing he has posted even when others have asked for him to do so.

This is the deal. I came to this site looking for facts and personal experiences. I didn't come here to have people post opinions without facts to back them or to be called silly names or to be harassed by other members. If YOU continue down this line of posting comments by a person that YOU KNOW I have chosen to ignore, then you will join him. He earned his position. You are very close to earning your position with him as well.
 
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
I think the primary reason is [soaking] sounds impressive to unquestioning consumers and those uneducated in the nuances of tribology.

It's an advertising claim. Nothing more. Why would you even expect it to comply with the nuances of tribology? Here are some more "science" sounding claims. You might put on hip-waders before reading the list.

- Hand sanitizers can prevent staph infection.
- Taco Bell's 'ground beef' is exactly like real beef.
- Apple's iPhone 4 'retina' display has more pixels than the eye can perceive.
- Wrigley's Eclipse chewing gum kills bad-breath germs
- Airborne supplement fights off colds
- Reebok's EasyTone shoes give you better buns than other sneakers
- Audiomasons speakers Are 20,000% more eco-friendly than yours
- The white tea in Nivea's My Silhouette cream makes you thinner

It's advertising - not science. You can keep substituting 'diffuse' or 'permeate' into the ad claims but that makes no more sense than the original ad claims themselves.

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
I have asked this question before, "What is the big deal with this-called and unscientifically supported "soaking" language anyway? What really matters in vehicle or machine technology are surface interactions. Anti-wear films which chemically interact with the atoms at the material's surface forms a plastic film composed of the material's surface and chemical compounds contained within the anti-wear compound to retard wear and prolong machine life. Compounds which produce a whisker effect at the surface reduce friction in order to increase fuel mileage.

Finally something constructive in this thread. Let's all dose up on MoS2
 
Quote:
rdalek: This is the deal. I came to this site looking for facts and personal experiences. I didn't come here to have people post opinions without facts to back them or to be called silly names or to be harassed by other members.


I seriously doubt that. All the threads you have participated in indicate you came here to argue with the repetitious posting of unscientific manufacturer's claims thinking that would impress BITOG members.

And then you got upset when contradictory scientific data, FACTS, and arguments from real logic were presented.

And then you found out that BITOG members are more educated than most.

All of these revelations then blew your whole uninformed thesis.

And then you cry foul when a bit of levity or sarcasm is introduced. Maturity may help this situation.

And relying on a specific government agency to protect you from unsupported scientific claims is naive in the least.

It is the responsibility of the individual to not be taken in by marketing hype.

And this can only be accomplished by an educated populace.
 
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Originally Posted By: rdalek
Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: rdalek
Reminder for MolaKule. You are on my ignore list so I don't see or have any interest in anything you post. Period.



Then you'll never learn about how wrong you are. Pity.


Again, I have zero interest is anything he posts. I don't care if you quote what he posts or not. Unless someone I trust can say he has proven something, I have no interest in a single thing he says. However, if you want to continue doing this in a attempt to harass me, I'll add you to the ignore list. He has yet to prove a single thing he has posted even when others have asked for him to do so.


Don't blame me that all your claims are not backed by real science. That fault is your own. Add me to your ignore list. I'd be honored as well.
Originally Posted By: rdalek


This is the deal. I came to this site looking for facts and personal experiences. I didn't come here to have people post opinions without facts to back them or to be called silly names or to be harassed by other members.


Then when are you going to start presenting facts? Real facts back by the physical laws this world is in? You are entitled to your own opinion. But you are *not* entitled to your own facts. Especially when they can't stand up to logic or critical thinking.

Originally Posted By: rdalek

If YOU continue down this line of posting comments by a person that YOU KNOW I have chosen to ignore, then you will join him. He earned his position. You are very close to earning your position with him as well.


Boy, hollow threats don't impress me. Especially over the internet.

You must have me confused with someone who actually cares if I'm on your ignore list or not. If you want to act like the kid who picks up his ball and goes home because he can't play by his own rules, go right ahead.
 
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Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Quote:
rdalek: This is the deal. I came to this site looking for facts and personal experiences. I didn't come here to have people post opinions without facts to back them or to be called silly names or to be harassed by other members.


I seriously doubt that. All the threads you have participated in indicate you came here to argue with the repetitious posting of unscientific manufacturer's claims thinking that would impress BITOG members.

And then you got upset when contradictory scientific data, FACTS, and arguments from real logic were presented.

And then you found out that BITOG members are more educated than most.

All of these revelations then blew your whole uninformed thesis.

And then you cry foul when a bit of levity or sarcasm is introduced. Maturity may help this situation.

And relying on a specific government agency to protect you from unsupported scientific claims is naive in the least.

It is the responsibility of the individual to not be taken in by marketing hype.

And this can only be accomplished by an educated populace.



But but, you're on his ignore list. I'll see you there
11.gif


I swear. If you said water was wet he'd argue with you.
 
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Wow what a difference a day makes, NOT.

This thread is another thread headed for epic status.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint


Like I mentioned earlier, take any thin oil and drop a piece of ferrous metal into it, for more fun heat it to the temps oil in an engine would reach. Then take that metal wipe it clean with a dry cloth and apply an oil based primer specifically for metal to it. Report back. I found the oil treated metal must be washed with a chemical like Wil-Bond, and wiped dry in order for the primer to properly adhere. Is the thin oil penetrating? You'd sure as [censored] would think it did when your primer won't properly adhere. Interesting stuff for sure.


The oil is just sitting on the surface. Even a one molecule thick layer of oil or wax on the surface can prevent adhesion of paint or primers.
 
Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: rdalek
Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: rdalek
Reminder for MolaKule. You are on my ignore list so I don't see or have any interest in anything you post. Period.



Then you'll never learn about how wrong you are. Pity.


Again, I have zero interest is anything he posts. I don't care if you quote what he posts or not. Unless someone I trust can say he has proven something, I have no interest in a single thing he says. However, if you want to continue doing this in a attempt to harass me, I'll add you to the ignore list. He has yet to prove a single thing he has posted even when others have asked for him to do so.


Don't blame me that all your claims are not backed by real science. That fault is your own. Add me to your ignore list. I'd be honored as well.
Originally Posted By: rdalek


This is the deal. I came to this site looking for facts and personal experiences. I didn't come here to have people post opinions without facts to back them or to be called silly names or to be harassed by other members.


Then when are you going to start presenting facts? Real facts back by the physical laws this world is in? You are entitled to your own opinion. But you are *not* entitled to your own facts. Especially when they can't stand up to logic or critical thinking.

Originally Posted By: rdalek

If YOU continue down this line of posting comments by a person that YOU KNOW I have chosen to ignore, then you will join him. He earned his position. You are very close to earning your position with him as well.


Boy, hollow threats don't impress me. Especially over the internet.

You must have me confused with someone who actually cares if I'm on your ignore list or not. If you want to act like the kid who picks up his ball and goes home because he can't play by his own rules, go right ahead.


First of all, I am NOT your "boy".I'm not a "boy" at all. I got past that many many years ago. It does seem that you to have ran out of facts and want to resort to the name calling as well. The only thing hollow around here is the posts by people who can not dispute the facts. This is true for MMO and for Zmax as well it would seem.

As I have said before, if you are so convinced, go to the FTC. It's the easiest way to prove yourself. You file a complaint, which as far as I know costs nothing, and then let the FTC do the work for you. Or is there a reason you refuse to do that? I suspect there is and that has been covered before.

I like how you accuse me of acting like a kid when you and MoleKule is the one that resorts to childish tactics of name calling.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Wow what a difference a day makes, NOT.

This thread is another thread headed for epic status.


+1000

Hey Demarpaint,
Do you have any additional before and after pictures showing the cleaning abilities of MMO on a badly sludged engine? Maybe some visuals will get this discussion out of the realm of wordsmithing and back to the land of real results.
 
I still don't understand what it does when it "soaks in"? Why is that important? Why does it need to soak in and what benefits do you get by it doing so?

Originally Posted By: rdalek
Reminder for MolaKule. You are on my ignore list so I don't see or have any interest in anything you post. Period.

By the way, for the mod who seems to have removed my previous comment on this member being on my ignore list and why. I plan to take a screenshot of this post right after I post it. That way I have proof it is posted. Unless you can show this post violates the rules of this site, it may be a good idea to leave it be. If you plan to remove my posts, it would be best to have a very good reason. I'm starting to see a trend on this site. It is disturbing to say the least.
 
Oooh, can I be added too?

Why don't you save some time and just block the whole site?

Originally Posted By: rdalek
If YOU continue down this line of posting comments by a person that YOU KNOW I have chosen to ignore, then you will join him. He earned his position. You are very close to earning your position with him as well.
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
I still don't understand what it does when it "soaks in"? Why is that important? Why does it need to soak in and what benefits do you get by it doing so?

Originally Posted By: rdalek
Reminder for MolaKule. You are on my ignore list so I don't see or have any interest in anything you post. Period.

By the way, for the mod who seems to have removed my previous comment on this member being on my ignore list and why. I plan to take a screenshot of this post right after I post it. That way I have proof it is posted. Unless you can show this post violates the rules of this site, it may be a good idea to leave it be. If you plan to remove my posts, it would be best to have a very good reason. I'm starting to see a trend on this site. It is disturbing to say the least.


Note for rdalek:

Baiting a mod is guaranteed to earn you a vacation. So would telling a mod how to act. If you have a problem with a mod, send them a PM.

http://www.amazon.com/How-Win-Friends-Influence-People/dp/0671723650 You should read it for your own sake.
 
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Originally Posted By: kschachn
I still don't understand what it does when it "soaks in"? Why is that important? Why does it need to soak in and what benefits do you get by it doing so?

It provides an endless fascination to users of BITOG? Maybe?

Molakule summed it up nicely:

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
I have asked this question before, "What is the big deal with this-called and unscientifically supported "soaking" language anyway? What really matters in vehicle or machine technology are surface interactions. Anti-wear films which chemically interact with the atoms at the material's surface forms a plastic film composed of the material's surface and chemical compounds contained within the anti-wear compound to retard wear and prolong machine life. Compounds which produce a whisker effect at the surface reduce friction in order to increase fuel mileage.

If it soaked into aluminum pistons, that might help free up rings by dissolving carbon and sludge. Of course, it might dissolve carbon and sludge by just staying on the outside of the pistons and maybe down in the grooves. Dissolving carbon and sludge is a 'cleaning' function, so it is not clear how 'soaking' helps this function along.

--

Here's the real answer: The advertising copy writers like it. It's a sort of Microsoft claim - technically correct but totally meaningless. And, even better, it is a claim that has been immunized from FTC attacks, thanks to the groundbreaking work of the consultants at Zmax.
 
Originally Posted By: Clubber_Lang
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Wow what a difference a day makes, NOT.

This thread is another thread headed for epic status.


+1000

Hey Demarpaint,
Do you have any additional before and after pictures showing the cleaning abilities of MMO on a badly sludged engine? Maybe some visuals will get this discussion out of the realm of wordsmithing and back to the land of real results.



There are pictures, finding them would be a chore. I posted pictures of 3K OCI's with Dino oil showing very disappointing results. I was demonstrating that engines can still get dirty being meticulously maintained, and I caught flack. So anyone who wants to see pictures should use the search engine, they're out there.

Sorry to disappoint you, the bottom line is anything I post favorably will quickly be attacked by the anti's. So I'm going to just sit this one out.
 
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: demarpaint


Like I mentioned earlier, take any thin oil and drop a piece of ferrous metal into it, for more fun heat it to the temps oil in an engine would reach. Then take that metal wipe it clean with a dry cloth and apply an oil based primer specifically for metal to it. Report back. I found the oil treated metal must be washed with a chemical like Wil-Bond, and wiped dry in order for the primer to properly adhere. Is the thin oil penetrating? You'd sure as [censored] would think it did when your primer won't properly adhere. Interesting stuff for sure.


The oil is just sitting on the surface. Even a one molecule thick layer of oil or wax on the surface can prevent adhesion of paint or primers.


I realize that, but the oil still has to be chemically removed, vigorous wiping does nothing to get paint to adhere.

I was reading about porous transmission casings causing leaks. I have to read up on that some more it was very interesting.
 
Originally Posted By: Trajan
Note for rdalek:

Baiting a mod is guaranteed to earn you a vacation. So would telling a mod how to act. If you have a problem with a mod, send them a PM.

http://www.amazon.com/How-Win-Friends-Influence-People/dp/0671723650 You should read it for your own sake.



FYI. Talking to a mod is already in the works. Message sent a little bit ago.

Nice try tho. You still want to shut up anyone who disagrees with your opinion. I'm still posting facts and trying to find someone who can prove them wrong and head off to the FTC to get it corrected. So far, no one has took up the challenge tho.
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Oooh, can I be added too?

Why don't you save some time and just block the whole site?

Originally Posted By: rdalek
If YOU continue down this line of posting comments by a person that YOU KNOW I have chosen to ignore, then you will join him. He earned his position. You are very close to earning your position with him as well.


Then he would have no one to argue with? Ah well, at least he isn't whining about "antis".
 
Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Oooh, can I be added too?

Why don't you save some time and just block the whole site?

Originally Posted By: rdalek
If YOU continue down this line of posting comments by a person that YOU KNOW I have chosen to ignore, then you will join him. He earned his position. You are very close to earning your position with him as well.


Then he would have no one to argue with? Ah well, at least he isn't whining about "antis".


Thats what you are (anti), why deny it? You are on here with an agenda against a product you have no experience using.
 
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Quote:
Thats what you are (anti), why deny it? You are on here with an agenda against a product you have no experience using.


I really don't think anyone on here can be labeled an "anti."

The original purpose of BITOG was to educate the consumer about lubricants and that continues today.

Over-The-Counter (OTC) or Third Party Additives was sorely needed when fuels and lubricants had low quality, such as high sulfur content, low detergency, etc.

I would make the recommendation that unless you have evidence of a specific problem, don't use OTC additives. Modern formulated lubricants have everything you need.

And if you do have a specific problem, there may well be an OTC additive that can help, at least in the short term.

But I exhort everyone to do their research on the OTC additive to determine if it really has any efficacy.

Marketing "hype" is on the label for three primary reasons:

1.) to convince you to buy the product whether you need it or not,

2.) to try and convince you that mainstream formulators and blenders are in a conspiracy to "shaft" the consumer,

3.) to make money.
 
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My favorite, the "you haven't used it so you can't comment" on the published claims about the product.

They are throwing claims around in public, I can comment on the validity of those claims.

Originally Posted By: Clubber_Lang
Thats what you are (anti), why deny it? You are on here with an agenda against a product you have no experience using.
 
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