Keeps the carbs clean.
MMO Making Kawi Start Problems?
- Thread starter Lurch
- Start date
- Status
The description sounds like it was the Chemtool that started the problem. Regardless, MMO should not be concentrated more than 2 oz per 5 gallons fuel. If you're not measuring it, then yes it is possible you have put in too much. At worst it would probably just foul the plugs, pull the plugs and inspect, or just outright replace them.
I doubt that your additive, MMO or chemtool, caused any worse harm. I add MMO or TCW3 to every tankful in my motorcycle, have never had any problems.
I doubt that your additive, MMO or chemtool, caused any worse harm. I add MMO or TCW3 to every tankful in my motorcycle, have never had any problems.
Hi,
I called a local cycle shop about this yesterday and he told me to never run MMO year round. He said once or twice a year is a better idea.
I replaced the plugs yesterday and I feel like a heel for not replacing them sooner.
I only ran the bike a few miles but it really seems to have helped. It starts much easier, which is the main gripe I had with it. I'd never know when it would start. I could get it going when cold but when it warmed up, I never knew if it would run or not. At times, even jump starting it didn't seem to work. It ran good when I got it running though.
I put in new NGK plugs that he said are the same type that came with the bike when it was brand new. $13 for the set is better than $240 to have the carbs cleaned. I may sell the bike in the Spring and buy another one later on, so I didn't want to invest $300 into it that I'd never get back out of it.
Anyway, the plugs I pulled out of it look like they've really seen better days.
I called a local cycle shop about this yesterday and he told me to never run MMO year round. He said once or twice a year is a better idea.
I replaced the plugs yesterday and I feel like a heel for not replacing them sooner.
I put in new NGK plugs that he said are the same type that came with the bike when it was brand new. $13 for the set is better than $240 to have the carbs cleaned. I may sell the bike in the Spring and buy another one later on, so I didn't want to invest $300 into it that I'd never get back out of it.
Anyway, the plugs I pulled out of it look like they've really seen better days.
As much as your photos show, those plugs look good. The crud on the hex area is curious. Where the wires all the way down?
Originally Posted By: boraticus
Looks like three of those plugs may not have been sufficiently torqued.
It appears that there was either some blow by past the plugs or, your valve cover is leaking oil.
Probably some blow by. At least one of them seemed to come off too easy. I didn't torque them but I gapped them to .029" and tightened them down enough so that they now should be fine. I'll recheck the torque later to make sure they didn't loosen up. Starts great now, and I really think it runs better too.
Looks like three of those plugs may not have been sufficiently torqued.
It appears that there was either some blow by past the plugs or, your valve cover is leaking oil.
Probably some blow by. At least one of them seemed to come off too easy. I didn't torque them but I gapped them to .029" and tightened them down enough so that they now should be fine. I'll recheck the torque later to make sure they didn't loosen up. Starts great now, and I really think it runs better too.
Originally Posted By: Ken2
As much as your photos show, those plugs look good. The crud on the hex area is curious. Where the wires all the way down?
Yes, I think so. One day, it would only run on 3 cylinders for a few minutes. Other times it would backfire and sound like a .22 rifle when trying to start it. I'm thinking these new plugs are going to make it run a whole lot better now.
As much as your photos show, those plugs look good. The crud on the hex area is curious. Where the wires all the way down?
Yes, I think so. One day, it would only run on 3 cylinders for a few minutes. Other times it would backfire and sound like a .22 rifle when trying to start it. I'm thinking these new plugs are going to make it run a whole lot better now.
No.
Originally Posted By: Geonerd
Why are you adding MMO in the first place?
It may have been a "monkey see, monkey do" type of thing.
I never got any noticeable benefit from running MMO or Lucas UCL in my car or bike but the bike began to be hard to start with it. From now on I'm going to do as that bike tech suggested and just run an ounce or so of MMO in the gas tanks once or twice a year. I want to do my engines good, and I'm sure MMO is good stuff, but I can't see running it all the time without any benefit I can clearly see.
The issue I had with the bike may have had nothing to do with MMO. For all I know it may have been blow-by and fouled plugs that caused my hard starting.
Why are you adding MMO in the first place?
It may have been a "monkey see, monkey do" type of thing.
The issue I had with the bike may have had nothing to do with MMO. For all I know it may have been blow-by and fouled plugs that caused my hard starting.
Chances are that loose plugs/wires contributed to your starting issues.
I'd bet that if you had cleaned and put the same plugs back in properly tightened with wires well secured, your bike would not exhibit the difficult starting issues.
By the way, from my experience MMO and most other fuel additives are of little or no value. Particularly for the price. I keep a can of SeaFoam around to use as a fuel stabilizer but I'm having second thoughts on that as well.
Clean fuel, a good fuel filter and clean air filter, along with regular OCIs with a decent quality oil is all that an engine really needs.
Additives, in my opinion are more of an exercise of self deception to make one think that the owner is doing wonders for his/her machine. It's more wishful thinking than a mechanical advantage.
I'd bet that if you had cleaned and put the same plugs back in properly tightened with wires well secured, your bike would not exhibit the difficult starting issues.
By the way, from my experience MMO and most other fuel additives are of little or no value. Particularly for the price. I keep a can of SeaFoam around to use as a fuel stabilizer but I'm having second thoughts on that as well.
Clean fuel, a good fuel filter and clean air filter, along with regular OCIs with a decent quality oil is all that an engine really needs.
Additives, in my opinion are more of an exercise of self deception to make one think that the owner is doing wonders for his/her machine. It's more wishful thinking than a mechanical advantage.
Quote:
I'd bet that if you had cleaned and put the same plugs back in properly tightened with wires well secured, your bike would not exhibit the difficult starting issues.
I'd bet on it as well. The lesson I learned is : take nothing for granted. Just because the original owner was an engineer and always garaged the bike, changed he oil every 2000 miles, washed and waxed it, never rode it hard, etc., etc., doesn't mean the plugs would be just the way they should be. I should have AT LEAST checked to make sure the plugs were on tight enough. The seller probably loosened them intentionally.
Quote:
By the way, from my experience MMO and most other fuel additives are of little or no value. Particularly for the price.
Well, I sure feel that way now about MMO and Lucas UCL. I was religious about adding that stuff with every fill up, and I don't really think it did any good, at least that I'm aware of. No sense in adding it just because many people here do, especially if it doesn't seem to do any good.
I do, however, like to use Duralube. It makes the car motor seem to run a bit cooler and definitely quieter, and possibly gives it more oil pressure and power. It did wonders in my neighbor's '91 Corolla with 107k - quieted the motor a LOT and gave it more power. He's really pleased with it, and thinks I'm a smart guy.
I used to run Morey's oil stabilizer in my '84 Subaru GL Coupe and it increased the OP.
I'd bet that if you had cleaned and put the same plugs back in properly tightened with wires well secured, your bike would not exhibit the difficult starting issues.
I'd bet on it as well. The lesson I learned is : take nothing for granted. Just because the original owner was an engineer and always garaged the bike, changed he oil every 2000 miles, washed and waxed it, never rode it hard, etc., etc., doesn't mean the plugs would be just the way they should be. I should have AT LEAST checked to make sure the plugs were on tight enough. The seller probably loosened them intentionally.
Quote:
By the way, from my experience MMO and most other fuel additives are of little or no value. Particularly for the price.
Well, I sure feel that way now about MMO and Lucas UCL. I was religious about adding that stuff with every fill up, and I don't really think it did any good, at least that I'm aware of. No sense in adding it just because many people here do, especially if it doesn't seem to do any good.
I do, however, like to use Duralube. It makes the car motor seem to run a bit cooler and definitely quieter, and possibly gives it more oil pressure and power. It did wonders in my neighbor's '91 Corolla with 107k - quieted the motor a LOT and gave it more power. He's really pleased with it, and thinks I'm a smart guy.
I used to run Morey's oil stabilizer in my '84 Subaru GL Coupe and it increased the OP.
Good points Lurch.
I've been down the fuel additive road and found that there was no clear advantage in any of my experiences from using it. Bottom line was that I was spending money on expensive additives (SeaFoam is around $14.00/can up here) and getting little or nothing in return. Short of scientific studies, A-B comparisons and engine tear down/wear analysis, there no way for Joe consumer to verify the effectiveness of fuel additives.
I do have one exception however but it was with a diesel engine. My three cylinder liquid cooled Kubota diesel power plant engine was getting difficult to start. The guy I bought if off of told me to add a bottle of Siloo diesel fuel conditioner into ten gallons of fuel and thereafter, an oz. or so for every five gallons. Worked like a charm. That was fifteen years ago and since then, the engine fires up like it was new. The difference in this experience is that there is tangible proof that it worked.
I can't say the same for any of my gasoline engines because, generally speaking they all start and run great unless I happen to get some contaminated fuel.
Yeah.... I'm pretty much done with gasoline fuel additives. Maybe some fuel injector cleaner in the autos if they get a bit lumpy. Otherwise, that's it.
I've been down the fuel additive road and found that there was no clear advantage in any of my experiences from using it. Bottom line was that I was spending money on expensive additives (SeaFoam is around $14.00/can up here) and getting little or nothing in return. Short of scientific studies, A-B comparisons and engine tear down/wear analysis, there no way for Joe consumer to verify the effectiveness of fuel additives.
I do have one exception however but it was with a diesel engine. My three cylinder liquid cooled Kubota diesel power plant engine was getting difficult to start. The guy I bought if off of told me to add a bottle of Siloo diesel fuel conditioner into ten gallons of fuel and thereafter, an oz. or so for every five gallons. Worked like a charm. That was fifteen years ago and since then, the engine fires up like it was new. The difference in this experience is that there is tangible proof that it worked.
I can't say the same for any of my gasoline engines because, generally speaking they all start and run great unless I happen to get some contaminated fuel.
Yeah.... I'm pretty much done with gasoline fuel additives. Maybe some fuel injector cleaner in the autos if they get a bit lumpy. Otherwise, that's it.
I bought 5 bottles of Duralube a while back when they had a promo and each one had a $10 rebate coupon at Walmart, and no limit to the amount of rebates sent in. So, I paid about $15 for all 5 and saved $50. I only plan to add 1 cup per oil change, but that's all it takes.
I added it with PP 5w30 this last OCI and was amazed at how quiet and smooth the car ran.
Update :
My bike stats better after putting in new NGK OEM plugs, but it's still moody and at times doesn't want to start. I have a feeling the MMO gunked up my carbs, and am hoping they'll clean up after a while.
I got on it good yesterday out on a nice open road, and red lined it in the first three gears and I think the speedo said I hit 90, and if that was the case, I'd bet that sucka would do way over 120. Bike definitely has plenty of power.
My bike stats better after putting in new NGK OEM plugs, but it's still moody and at times doesn't want to start. I have a feeling the MMO gunked up my carbs, and am hoping they'll clean up after a while.
I got on it good yesterday out on a nice open road, and red lined it in the first three gears and I think the speedo said I hit 90, and if that was the case, I'd bet that sucka would do way over 120. Bike definitely has plenty of power.
Have you confirmed that your choke/enriching circuit is working? If everything is in normal working condition, that engine should fire right up. If the engine runs well when warm, that leads me to think that cold starting issues may be related to insufficient fuel. Could be something a simple as the enriching circuit actuation cable/linkage.
Originally Posted By: boraticus
Have you confirmed that your choke/enriching circuit is working? If everything is in normal working condition, that engine should fire right up. If the engine runs well when warm, that leads me to think that cold starting issues may be related to insufficient fuel. Could be something a simple as the enriching circuit actuation cable/linkage.
Hi,
It may not start when cold or warm, so I don't think it has to do with the choke. It usually starts but it's a coin flip to say when it's going to give me a hard time.
If I hold onto it long term I may have them determine if the valves need adjusting in the Springtime.
Have you confirmed that your choke/enriching circuit is working? If everything is in normal working condition, that engine should fire right up. If the engine runs well when warm, that leads me to think that cold starting issues may be related to insufficient fuel. Could be something a simple as the enriching circuit actuation cable/linkage.
Hi,
It may not start when cold or warm, so I don't think it has to do with the choke. It usually starts but it's a coin flip to say when it's going to give me a hard time.
If I hold onto it long term I may have them determine if the valves need adjusting in the Springtime.
Since you've ruled out fuel problems, have you traced the electrics? Hard thing to do without a fair amount of dis-assembly. Intermittent starting could be caused by a grounding/shorting or loose/corroded connection.
I've found that more often than not, any electrical related starting problems I've had occurred right at the battery. A slight bit of corrosion is all it takes.
I've found that more often than not, any electrical related starting problems I've had occurred right at the battery. A slight bit of corrosion is all it takes.
Bike seems to be gradually starting and running better. I'll check out the battery area but I don't think it's that. Bike is very clean and has no corrosion anywhere that I've seen. It was always garaged. Yesterday it started cold, with choke almost immediately.
Thanks again for your replies.
Thanks again for your replies.
- Status
Similar threads
