Mixing oil - effects on HTHS

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If one mixes the same brand oil of two different weights, would the HTHS viscosity vary in the same manner as the low shear rate viscosity? Do the viscosity calculator sites (e.g. Widman)use a straight forward volumetric average to provide a final answer?

Example:
3 quarts Pennzoil Ultra 5w30 + 1 qt. Pennzoil Ultra 5w20
HTHS:(3*3.1+2.7)/4 = 3.0 (Along the lines of Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0w30)
100degC visc:(3*10.3+8.4)/4 = 9.8 (Still above the 30 weight minimum)

Are these assumptions and calculations in line with reality?
 
It's shear, not stress. Minor detail. Anyhow, no the mixing equation is not a weighted average of the two viscosities but calculating it that way is close enough for our purposes. Example of weighted average formula failing is mixing sand and water. Sand has infinite viscosity yet a nearly homogenous mixture sand and water will flow so its viscosity is not infinite. The better formula puts a bias toward the lower viscosity oil. That is, the mix's viscosity will be a little less than what is calculated using the weighted average formula.
 
So....
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Example:
3 quarts Pennzoil Ultra 5w30 + 1 qt. Pennzoil Ultra 5w20
HTHS:(3*3.1+2.7)/4 = 3.0 (Along the lines of Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0w30)
100degC visc:(3*10.3+8.4)/4 = 9.8 (Still above the 30 weight minimum)

Are these assumptions and calculations in line with reality?
 
HTHS = High Temperature / High Shear It is a more accurate measure of the viscosity of the oil in the engine bearings in actual use.
For a good read on it.....use the search.
I state that because I'm not as up on it as folks that have written about it, so you can get a much better description from them.

In short, there are other, VERY important specifications for motor oil than the simple Xw-XX (0W-20 etc).
2 motor oils can have the same numbers......such as 5w30 on the bottle....but the HTHS can be different between the 2.
The SAE specification lists a MINIMUM......of 2.9 for a 5w30, but there is not a stated maximum.
To find the HTHS specification for a particular oil, you normally need to go online and find a specification sheet for that particular oil on the manufacturer's website.
It is NOT normal for HTHS to be listed on the bottle.


As mentioned above, another specification is the VI = Viscosity Index = a measure of how much a motor oil thickens as temperature goes DOWN.
The LESS an oil thickens as it cools the BETTER.
This means, the higher the VI number, the better.
But then comes the question.....what do they need to do to get the high VI?......What is the quality of the Viscosity Index Improvers that they add?
Again, VI is not normally found on the bottle......but on the specification sheet on the manufacturer's website.

5w30.......
The 5W is a viscosity measurement taken at 40 degrees C.....most engine starts from cold are well below that.
So between 2 5w30 oils.....1 may have a higher Viscosity Index and be less thick (better) at 20 degrees C (near room temp) and even better at 0 degrees C (freezing).

The 30 is a viscosity measurement taken at 100 degrees C, close to the operating temperature, but a different type of measurement than the HTHS measurement, which is taken at 150 Degrees C.

Then it comes down to how well a oil STAYS within the various specifications over time, use and the various conditions to which it is subjected.

In short....it is common for folks here to get hung up on 1 specification...or 1 ingredient in the oil.....I've done it myself.
But I want to stress that it is the whole package......many different specifications that are important in determining the best motor oil for YOUR particular application.
Also, some manufacturers list more information than others on their website.....

The question here is....if a person wants a particular HTHS and they have 2 oils of the same basic chemistry (Such as Mobil 1 0W-20 and Mobil 1 0W-40), one has a lower HTHS than they are wanting and the other has a higher HTHS than they want, how do they mix the 2 to get the HTHS that they are seeking?
 
Originally Posted By: wiswind
5w30.......
The 5W is a viscosity measurement taken at 40 degrees C.....most engine starts from cold are well below that.
So between 2 5w30 oils.....1 may have a higher Viscosity Index and be less thick (better) at 20 degrees C (near room temp) and even better at 0 degrees C (freezing).



This is wrong. 5W refers to the low temperature flow characteristics of Cold Cranking (CCS) and Low Temperature Pumpability (MRV). To get the 5W rating in the API viscosity grading system, an oil must have CCS below 6600cP at -30C, and an MRV below 40,000cP at -35C. Viscosity at 40C has nothing to do with it.
 
Thanks you for the correction.
I do want to be correct.
However, I hope the point about the 0W 5W 10W is still taken.
There are a lot of people who think that 0W is too thin at operating temperature vs 5W or 10W
 
Originally Posted By: wiswind

There are a lot of people who think that 0W is too thin at operating temperature vs 5W or 10W

You're right and those that think that are of course wrong.
Since the SAE grade on a bottle of oil is the first thing people will encounter in choosing motor oil, those that think a 0W oil is "too thin at operating temperature vs 5W or 10W", by definition don't know the first thing about motor oil.
 
When mixing two oils the resulting viscosity is the inverse log of the weighted average of the logs of the viscosities of the oils involved.

Resulting viscosity = Antilog (X log A + Y log B + Z log C)

Where X Y and Z are the proportions of the oils A B and C respectively in the mix. You can have only two terms or in theory I guess as many as you want. As far as I know this is for base oils, so am not sure how it works for a blended oil which has viscosity index improver added and other stuff. Also not sure if it applies for high temp high sheer viscosity, but assume we can go with it for our simple purposes.
 
You do know plenty, but remember we're just dilettantes, for the most part. The chemists and engineers just know far more, although I am trying to restrain myself from saying something about chemists and their (lack of) math skills.
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The VIIs create a non-Newtonian fluid. The equation only applies to Newtonia fluids. It works find for most fluids at most practical temperature though. It also does not apply as the temperature approaches state changes (liquid to solid, liquid to gas). This is why the calculator cannot predict viscosity very well at very cold temps as the fluid transitions from a liquid to a solid.
 
It is good to see that this simple question has brought up some complex answers...

I appreciate everyone's feedback.
 
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