"mini rant" regarding furnace issues/HVAC companies....

earlyre

earlyre

Joined
Nov 23, 2011
Messages
6,235
Location
Lima, Ohio, USA
as some may know, I live with my Elderly parents (I'm 45, they're 78/79)
unbeknownst to me, (working 4a-noon) on Thanksgiving Morning our Furnace went out. ( just happened to be the start of the Coldest weather we've had this year).
Dad calls the local HVAC company he has a "Service Contract" with to come out. they tell him, because of the Holiday, it's $175 for the service call, and $175/hr plus Parts.
He gives them an emphatic YES!
2 hours later, he gets a call from the on-call tech, "Do you want me to come today, or wait until tomorrow, it's Double time today" YES! get come fix it please!
another 2 hours later the tech shows up, (Right as Guests are Arriving) he pokes a round for a bit, looks like it's this pressure switch that's failed... I'll have to order one...
and before he leaves, he needs the payment for the call, $300...( they started doing this within the last year, normally they'd just bill us.)
Okay, fine. we have a gas insert in the living room fire place, space heaters in the bedrooms, and a wood Stove in the basement. we have heat sources.

that was Thursday 11/28 (Thanksgiving day). Friday morning the office calls, " we saw that you called out emergency number yesterday, did some one come out? "
yes, and he was supposed to order a part..." oh yes, it shows here that he did order that." any idea when it will be in? "no"

Monday, one of the regular guys that normally comes out for maintenance on our Furnace/AC/Generator, etc. shows up with the part.
well.. that didn't fix it... looks like the main board needs to be replaced, and that's a $500 part, BUT... this system is 13 years old, and it only has a 15 year design life, and proceeds to "show" dad a bunch of other parts that are gonna start "nickle and dime"ing you to death, you'd be better off with a new Furnace..
Dad agrees, and decides to replace the A/C at the same time, as a "Bundle", which "will save them money" and besides, the A/C prices are going to up after the first of the year, because of a change in refrigerant. ... they schedule a Sales call before the repairman leaves, earliest they can have a salesman to us is Thursday.

Thursday comes, salesman comes out, does his spiel, $8400 for a new Furnace and A/C. Dad Puts Half down.
" looks like we're 3 weeks out on installs, we're trying to get all our "no heat" customers installed by Christmas, but sine you guys are elderly with health issues, we'll see if we can't get you moved up the list. ( this happened while i was at work also)

3 weeks out puts us to 12/26.

yesterday, Friday 12/20, he calls to see if we're any closer to getting the system in..." we're still waiting on one part, and at this rate, even if it comes in Monday, we likely won't be able to get you scheduled for next week...
so here we sit, still, without a working Furnace since Thanksgiving. Gas insert has been running nearly non stop, space heaters in bedrooms, and Wood stove burning away.

Hopefully we'll get our new Furnace in before 2025, but i'm not holding my breath at this point....

so that's an unexpected $8400 less than a month before Christmas, after having to Drill a new Well, and all that goes with that in fall of '23 ($25k) and this past Spring Replacing the 50 gal gas hot water heater that rusted out ( another $2k)
Merry Christmas to All!
- End Rant-
 
Sounds like the HVAC company has been telling tales about both their service contract and their install timing. You pay a premium rate for same day holiday service on top of what you paid for the service contract and you get zilch in terms of a fix.
You are then sold an entirely new system based upon what may be a false premise and the new system won't be installed until a month after the original no-heat call.
Shame on them for doing this in late fall/early winter.
What if the house had no other source of heat?
 
I feel the pain. This whole idea of a 15 year design life is so maddening. My boiler has a control board, a high speed computer controlled motor injecting a mixture of propane and air and is a condensing boiler so it sends a stream of acidic water to the drain and used to leak until I got a partswoman who new her stuff and ordered up the revised seal. All in the name of squeezing an extra 5 % of efficiency.
 
Not unlike car dealers being the weakest link in the automotive marketplace chain, that also holds true for the HVAC industry.
Dealer/installers are real slimy IMO. Certainly not all of them, but enough of them to taint the perception of the general public.
I tell everyone who asks me to NEVER get into a service contract. They are a huge waste of money and the only assurance you get is continued crappy service when you need it the most.
 
earlyre said:
FatOrangeCat said:
Sorry to hear about this situation.
Any chance to call another local HVAC place and see if they can source the circuit board? Cancel the expensive new system?
Click to expand...

my brother and I suggested similar, but to no avail.
Click to expand...
What do you mean by "but to no avail"? Are you saying your parents are unwilling to pursue cancelling the new system with a company that clearly is taking advantage of them? If so, you and your brother need to step up and protect them from being abused in this situation. I suggest trying to get some word of mouth recommendations from your peers and neighbors for a more reputable HVAC contractor and cross-referencing Yelp and Google reviews on their business reputation.

Heck, I would even roll the dice on a new control board which you can likely source online for ~$150 shipped, instead of the $500 quote from the current contractor. Fixing a 13 y.o. gas furnace is typically not rocket science for someone with good, basic mechanical/electrical comprehension.
 
Last edited:
you got a bad tech. there are lots of test for bad pressure switches and they can even be jumped sometimes. a 13 year old furnace can ususally be fixed pretty easily unless its a crack exchanger. bad boards are not that common . Common are things like pressure switches and inducer motors and fan motors . lots of furnace guys rather just replace one instead of fixing it . more money

 
earlyre said:
as some may know, I live with my Elderly parents (I'm 45, they're 78/79)
unbeknownst to me, (working 4a-noon) on Thanksgiving Morning our Furnace went out. ( just happened to be the start of the Coldest weather we've had this year).
Dad calls the local HVAC company he has a "Service Contract" with to come out. they tell him, because of the Holiday, it's $175 for the service call, and $175/hr plus Parts.
He gives them an emphatic YES!
2 hours later, he gets a call from the on-call tech, "Do you want me to come today, or wait until tomorrow, it's Double time today" YES! get come fix it please!
another 2 hours later the tech shows up, (Right as Guests are Arriving) he pokes a round for a bit, looks like it's this pressure switch that's failed... I'll have to order one...
and before he leaves, he needs the payment for the call, $300...( they started doing this within the last year, normally they'd just bill us.)
Okay, fine. we have a gas insert in the living room fire place, space heaters in the bedrooms, and a wood Stove in the basement. we have heat sources.

that was Thursday 11/28 (Thanksgiving day). Friday morning the office calls, " we saw that you called out emergency number yesterday, did some one come out? "
yes, and he was supposed to order a part..." oh yes, it shows here that he did order that." any idea when it will be in? "no"

Monday, one of the regular guys that normally comes out for maintenance on our Furnace/AC/Generator, etc. shows up with the part.
well.. that didn't fix it... looks like the main board needs to be replaced, and that's a $500 part, BUT... this system is 13 years old, and it only has a 15 year design life, and proceeds to "show" dad a bunch of other parts that are gonna start "nickle and dime"ing you to death, you'd be better off with a new Furnace..
Dad agrees, and decides to replace the A/C at the same time, as a "Bundle", which "will save them money" and besides, the A/C prices are going to up after the first of the year, because of a change in refrigerant. ... they schedule a Sales call before the repairman leaves, earliest they can have a salesman to us is Thursday.

Thursday comes, salesman comes out, does his spiel, $8400 for a new Furnace and A/C. Dad Puts Half down.
" looks like we're 3 weeks out on installs, we're trying to get all our "no heat" customers installed by Christmas, but sine you guys are elderly with health issues, we'll see if we can't get you moved up the list. ( this happened while i was at work also)

3 weeks out puts us to 12/26.

yesterday, Friday 12/20, he calls to see if we're any closer to getting the system in..." we're still waiting on one part, and at this rate, even if it comes in Monday, we likely won't be able to get you scheduled for next week...
so here we sit, still, without a working Furnace since Thanksgiving. Gas insert has been running nearly non stop, space heaters in bedrooms, and Wood stove burning away.

Hopefully we'll get our new Furnace in before 2025, but i'm not holding my breath at this point....

so that's an unexpected $8400 less than a month before Christmas, after having to Drill a new Well, and all that goes with that in fall of '23 ($25k) and this past Spring Replacing the 50 gal gas hot water heater that rusted out ( another $2k)
Merry Christmas to All!
- End Rant-
Click to expand...
Don't burn the house down with those space heaters
 
My mom had a 7 or 8 year old furnace and AC serviced under contract 2 times a year. Something small was acting up during routine service call and they sold her a $14,000 system. She’s happy so I didn’t push it but she got screwed based on what I’ve seen others pay for better equipment. 80% furnace and basic AC should’ve been closer to $7-9,000 and hers only needed a sub $1,000 repair.
 
The big companies are bad about this. This is how they managed to get so big in the first place. Avoid the big national companies at all cost. They are the worst!

Chances are that furnace could have been easily fixed and you guys would have heat. But these big companies don't have techs anymore they have salesman trying to play techs that are incentivized to sell sell sell.
 
We replaced the HVAC system in our beach house 2 years ago. The old system was a 24 year old Payne furnace and AC...furnace worked ok but AC was failing. Paid $8500 cash for a new Bryant system. Same outfit that installed the original system. Not every HVAC contractor is a den of thieves, there are plenty that are decent, reputable, family owned businesses.
 
I'll chime in! About 2 years ago summertime heat and I turned on the AC, all operational sounds were normal, meaning the fan was blowing, then I realize that I was sweating bullets and things were not cooling off. I did the usual checks and noticed that the outside condenser motor was not running at all just the internal interior fan was blowing. Not knowing anything about HVAC systems I called a local company, and speaking with him they wanted 125 to do a service call evaluation and estimate if needed.

The service tech over the phone said since the condenser motor is not spinning it most likely is frozen since it was a 10 year old unit, and that would be in the neighborhood of 3400. That would include new motor testing the system blah blah blah blah.

I called another company same blah blah and spoke with a few local homeowners which knew less than I did at this point! :)
I proceeded to search the internet for more information as to why my condenser motor is not spinning. The long story short is that it came back to a faulty capacitor on the outside unit.

I did a simple home test with my voltmeter following the directions. And of course I was Ultra safe by powering everything off and I knew that capacitors from experience do hold a charge, so I tried to discharge the capacitor, but the immediate result was no charge and bad ohm reading.
Ordered the capacitor online for $14 and took a gamble that that was it.

That was the fix a bad capacitor and I lucked out and had cold air and still using the AC.

The more I read about AC HVAC units and like that YouTube video shows the sequence of operation gives a person added knowledge so when they do call the HVAC Tech, they at least know what they are talking about. Good luck
 
RhondaHonda said:
My mom had a 7 or 8 year old furnace and AC serviced under contract 2 times a year. Something small was acting up during routine service call and they sold her a $14,000 system. She’s happy so I didn’t push it but she got screwed based on what I’ve seen others pay for better equipment. 80% furnace and basic AC should’ve been closer to $7-9,000 and hers only needed a sub $1,000 repair.
Click to expand...
Drives me crazy. Our last home, 16 years old, 3000 sq ft, 2 builder grade HEIL units were still going strong. Over time 1 condenser fan was replaced and capacitors in both units by me. Too long a story on how one company was giving me estimates to replace the units.

The buyers of our house AC company inspection gave them the green light, still running perfect. Keep in mind these units run 14/7 everyday of the year. We never open windows and SC summer temps where we lived exceeds Florida.
The only time one of the units got rest was the main floor unit as it used gas for winter heat. 2nd floor was a heat pump.

Which brings me to this, our next door neighbor, super nice lady (very old) lost her husband years back. When the house was only 11 years (or less old) the condenser fan went, they charged her $600 for a new one I did my own with an OEM for $150. Fast forward for some reason a year later, she had a whole new system installed (and get this) they sold her ALL NEW DUCT WORK. They removed all the flex duct and put in steel.
I didnt even ask how much, they were there for days, then followed by weeks of trouble shooting.

But it wasnt just her. I used to joke with my wife, starting when these houses were 7 years or so old, As soon as anyone had a problem the "respected" AC companies, family owned, with a dozen new shiny trucks (guess who pays for that) and the fancy buildings were already replacing the systems. They make up stories on how it's not worth to fix. SO here I was at two units 16 years old, still going strong /// and every time I saw a repair guy (almost) I knew days later a new system would go in a neighbors house. People can not critically think anymore and are taught that it is replacement time. Not only that, but when they do get replaced they get sold on complicated super efficient units that are at times impossible to fix and when they do, costly. We turn a simple machine, proven over time with plentiful parts into a complicated computer system that no one can fix 10 years later and they pay dearly for that.
There is something true about "keep it simple" with home units. It is a gamble to do otherwise.
 
alarmguy said:
Drives me crazy. Our last home, 16 years old, 3000 sq ft, 2 builder grade HEIL units were still going strong. Over time 1 condenser fan was replaced and capacitors in both units by me. Too long a story on how one company was giving me estimates to replace the units.

The buyers of our house AC company inspection gave them the green light, still running perfect. Keep in mind these units run 14/7 everyday of the year. We never open windows and SC summer temps where we lived exceeds Florida.
The only time one of the units got rest was the main floor unit as it used gas for winter heat. 2nd floor was a heat pump.

Which brings me to this, our next door neighbor, super nice lady (very old) lost her husband years back. When the house was only 11 years (or less old) the condenser fan went, they charged her $600 for a new one I did my own with an OEM for $150. Fast forward for some reason a year later, she had a whole new system installed (and get this) they sold her ALL NEW DUCT WORK. They removed all the flex duct and put in steel.
I didnt even ask how much, they were there for days, then followed by weeks of trouble shooting.

But it wasnt just her. I used to joke with my wife, starting when these houses were 7 years or so old, As soon as anyone had a problem the "respected" AC companies, family owned, with a dozen new shiny trucks (guess who pays for that) and the fancy buildings were already replacing the systems. They make up stories on how it's not worth to fix. SO here I was at two units 16 years old, still going strong /// and every time I saw a repair guy (almost) I knew days later a new system would go in a neighbors house. People can not critically think anymore and are taught that it is replacement time. Not only that, but when they do get replaced they get sold on complicated super efficient units that are at times impossible to fix and when they do, costly. We turn a simple machine, proven over time with plentiful parts into a complicated computer system that no one can fix 10 years later and they pay dearly for that.
There is something true about "keep it simple" with home units. It is a gamble to do otherwise.
Click to expand...
Exactly. I had warm AC on one of our units last year (10 years old). They recharged it (maybe $400-500) and said it had a slow leak somewhere but should last me a cooling season. It lasted a few days. Diagnosed the leaking A coil (common in these Lennox units) and replaced and recharged for $2200 I believe. They gave me some back on the original recharge fee as well. I was just pleased they repaired it and didn’t sell me a new system. Our HVAC also runs year round so it doesn’t get a break. I’m hoping the other 2 Lennox units make it a few more years and maybe I’ll consider replacement at that time. I have one Carrier unit that is from 2017 that gets the least usage so fingers crossed it lasts a while.

The service call for the warm air was the first time any of them have been serviced since they were installed. I replace the filters and humidifer pads myself. What I’ve saved in not doing the routine service 2X a year on 4 units for 10 years probably pays for one new system when the time comes.
 
RhondaHonda said:
Exactly. I had warm AC on one of our units last year (10 years old). They recharged it (maybe $400-500) and said it had a slow leak somewhere but should last me a cooling season. It lasted a few days. Diagnosed the leaking A coil (common in these Lennox units) and replaced and recharged for $2200 I believe. They gave me some back on the original recharge fee as well. I was just pleased they repaired it and didn’t sell me a new system. Our HVAC also runs year round so it doesn’t get a break. I’m hoping the other 2 Lennox units make it a few more years and maybe I’ll consider replacement at that time. I have one Carrier unit that is from 2017 that gets the least usage so fingers crossed it lasts a while.

The service call for the warm air was the first time any of them have been serviced since they were installed. I replace the filters and humidifer pads myself. What I’ve saved in not doing the routine service 2X a year on 4 units for 10 years probably pays for one new system when the time comes.
Click to expand...
It's funny (maybe) our new home has name brand equipment and I was kind of impressed the builder used it. Until this forum *LOL*
Its Lennox but a basic unit I think and I am glad for that.
As far as your leak, a friend in my old community had a leak in his Heil evaporator at around the 7 year mark years back. Of course they wanted to sell him a new unit. He got a bunch of estimates and found someone who would replace or repair the coil (I forgot which) paid around $1,400 if I remember correctly, he has since moved (like we did) and the unit was still working fine 8 years after he moved.
 
a relative of mines furnace went out recently. they called a company and paid $400 for next day service . they came and looked at it and said its the pressure switch , but unfortunately its not available anymore and they will not put in non oem parts . . they also said since the thing was made in 1987 they would not repair it anyways . new furnace is $8k .

So they called me to take a look. yeah it seems like pressure switch . So i check the specs and its . 70 WC switch . pretty common on amazon. ordered one and installed it and it working like new . there is a guy on the tube that was venting about how his furnace , the same one as the one i fixed , he will have to spend big buck because of a discontinued part.
 
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