MICRO test- does highly filtered water reduce need to clean coffee maker

[GON]

Micro test.

Decided to clean a Keurig pot/ pod coffee maker today. Water is highly calcified city water, also high in PH and alkaline.

Water goes through generic triple filter before hitting coffee maker water dispenser. Coffee maker was likely last cleaned nine months ago. Coffee maker is used daily.

Coffee maker appears to be brewing slow, but no tests of measurements to back up the crude observation.


Cleaner is Nuvera, under $5 USD at Walmart.cleaner ingredients are water, glycolic, sulfamic, and citric acids.

I use a coffee filter to measure calcium and other deposits. After running the cleaner through the coffee maker, no visible deposits in the filter. Just a few grains of coffee.

Conclusion- cleaning a coffee maker that uses highly filtered water may not pay dividends on the investment in money and time.

Additionally, I also purchased the Keurig cleaner, will run a like test in a few months with the Keurig cleaner, which has some different ingredients, and see if results stay static or change.

 

[mk378]

You're missing the point. The solids are dissolved, both on the way in and the way out. Triple-filtered hard water is still hard water. Calcium carbonate is slightly soluble in cold water but much less in hot water. Thus when hard water is heated, the calcium carbonate falls out and coats the heating surface.

Adding an acid converts the solid calcium carbonate to calcium ions and CO2 gas. For example with citric acid, calcium citrate will form, which is highly soluble in water. This produces a clear liquid which can leave the coffee maker. There won't be any residue evident to filter out.

 

[GON]

You're missing the point. The solids are dissolved, both on the way in and the way out. Triple-filtered hard water is still hard water. Calcium carbonate is slightly soluble in cold water but much less in hot water. Thus when hard water is heated, the calcium carbonate falls out and coats the heating surface.

Adding an acid converts the solid calcium carbonate to calcium ions and CO2 gas. For example with citric acid, calcium citrate will form, which is highly soluble in water. This produces a clear liquid which can leave the coffee maker. There won't be any residue evident to filter out.

When I have done like cleaning in coffee pots with hard water and no filters, the minerals would be physical and visible in the coffee filter after the cleaning solution was run through the coffee maker.

 

[mk378]

That is because some of the carbonate may flake off and come out in chunks instead of reacting completely. A Keurig preheats water slowly in a tank. A Mr Coffee type machine flash-boils it immediately just before dripping it into the coffee filter funnel. The steam bubbles act as a pump making the machine simpler. It is a more violent process though.

 

[loneryder]

I use an Aquatru RO water filter machine. After many months I decided to clean the Keurig. Nothing came out!

 

[2005jettatdi]

I only use distilled water in my Keurigs and Mr. Coffee. Our water not only is hard water, it also has arsenic in it. Not a lot, but any amount is too much IMO. Other metals in our water too.

I have been thinking of whole house RO or other filter. I don't like water softeners. If I get a whole house system I will still use distilled water in the coffee makers.

 

[jcy]

I only use distilled water in my Keurigs and Mr. Coffee. Our water not only is hard water, it also has arsenic in it. Not a lot, but any amount is too much IMO. Other metals in our water too.

I have been thinking of whole house RO or other filter. I don't like water softeners. If I get a whole house system I will still use distilled water in the coffee makers.

i am kind of a weirdo i run distilled water through a zerowater filter (s/o project farm!) before it goes into the coffee machine

 

[kschachn]

You're missing the point. The solids are dissolved, both on the way in and the way out. Triple-filtered hard water is still hard water. Calcium carbonate is slightly soluble in cold water but much less in hot water. Thus when hard water is heated, the calcium carbonate falls out and coats the heating surface.

Adding an acid converts the solid calcium carbonate to calcium ions and CO2 gas. For example with citric acid, calcium citrate will form, which is highly soluble in water. This produces a clear liquid which can leave the coffee maker. There won't be any residue evident to filter out.

This.

 

[alarmguy]

A Reverse osmosis filter is the only device that will remove minerals = pure water.

 

[kschachn]

A Reverse osmosis filter is the only device that will remove minerals = pure water.

That’s not true. Deionizing beds that exchange mineral ions for H+ and OH- do not exchange with sodium or other ions. Plus of course distillation which is another “device”.

 

[robbobster]

I only use distilled water in my Keurigs and Mr. Coffee. Our water not only is hard water, it also has arsenic in it. Not a lot, but any amount is too much IMO. Other metals in our water too.

I have been thinking of whole house RO or other filter. I don't like water softeners. If I get a whole house system I will still use distilled water in the coffee makers.

Our oldest (he’s 5) got a blood test when he was very young, his metals were off the charts. The doc said he would expect to see results like this in people who lived near mining operations…not from the suburbs.

We immediately invested in a RO system and haven’t looked back…and his levels are normal now.

But in the back of our minds, we will always wonder if it played a role in his autism…

 

[PandaBear]

My parents just boil tap water in San Francisco to remove the chlorine, no calcium deposits in the Zojirushi kettle. When I moved out in college I got a lot of calcium deposits with the rural / suburb ground tap water.

I used citric acid to clean it and they would dissolve, with no flakes coming out of the kettle. I started going to water store to get their RO water and no more calcium build up.

I have a steamer now and over time tap water would form a crust at the bottom of the steamer. However that crust look different than the kettle crust from back then. It is a crust of food crumbs and calcium. Citric acid is pretty much the only thing that dissolve it, not vinegar, because they stay behind instead of boil off below water boiling point, vinegar would boil off too early, and over a few days of steaming it would clean off the crust.

My conclusion is citric acid work over time, and calcium crust from evaporation is real. You have to take a look at the heating element visually to confirm instead of relying on hard particle on a filter to verify.

 

[PandaBear]

I only use distilled water in my Keurigs and Mr. Coffee. Our water not only is hard water, it also has arsenic in it. Not a lot, but any amount is too much IMO. Other metals in our water too.

I have been thinking of whole house RO or other filter. I don't like water softeners. If I get a whole house system I will still use distilled water in the coffee makers.

I use store bought RO filter refill for my kettle and humidifier, no calcium deposit over 20 years. Good enough for me.

 

[bdc101]

A Reverse osmosis filter is the only device that will remove minerals = pure water.

That’s not true. Deionizing beds that exchange mineral ions for H+ and OH- do not exchange with sodium or other ions. Plus of course distillation which is another “device”.

Yes, and many espresso machines have a place for an internal water softener (ion exchanger) which has to be replaced every so often, depending on how hard your water is. This one comes in my home espresso machine for example:
https://www.1st-line.com/buy/1st-line-in-tank-water-softener-particle-filter-30-liter/

 

[y_p_w]

My parents just boil tap water in San Francisco to remove the chlorine, no calcium deposits in the Zojirushi kettle. When I moved out in college I got a lot of calcium deposits with the rural / suburb ground tap water.

I used citric acid to clean it and they would dissolve, with no flakes coming out of the kettle. I started going to water store to get their RO water and no more calcium build up.

I have a steamer now and over time tap water would form a crust at the bottom of the steamer. However that crust look different than the kettle crust from back then. It is a crust of food crumbs and calcium. Citric acid is pretty much the only thing that dissolve it, not vinegar, because they stay behind instead of boil off below water boiling point, vinegar would boil off too early, and over a few days of steaming it would clean off the crust.

My conclusion is citric acid work over time, and calcium crust from evaporation is real. You have to take a look at the heating element visually to confirm instead of relying on hard particle on a filter to verify.

San Francisco uses chloramine now, which doesn’t boil away as readily. I think the switch was about a decade ago.

https://19january2017snapshot.epa.gov/www3/region9/water/chloramine.html​

Recently San Francisco Public Utility Commision (SFPUC) changed from using free chlorine to chloramine in its drinking water transmission pipes. Some people are concerned for possible public health implications and for reported effects on fish and amphibians.​

As far as coffeemaker cleaners go, I remember being the office coffee guy for a period. I ordered some descaling packets. Might have been citric acid, but the other thing I remember about one I got was that it had kosher certification. Found it. Urnex is certified kosher through Star K.

 

[alarmguy]

Yes, and many espresso machines have a place for an internal water softener (ion exchanger) which has to be replaced every so often, depending on how hard your water is. This one comes in my home espresso machine for example:
https://www.1st-line.com/buy/1st-line-in-tank-water-softener-particle-filter-30-liter/

Good point
I thought about ion exchange. I didn’t know a machine would have one. Ion exchange and reverse osmosis are used in aquarium, medical industry too.

As far as getting absolute pure water reverse osmosis is the only way.
However ion exchange can be made to get rid of undesirable elements and replace those elements with something that is acceptable. (Exchange)
Requires no special equipment and easy to use.
In an expresso maker an undesirable trait would be something that’s affects taste and/or mineral buildup,

 

[kschachn]

Good point
I thought about ion exchange. I didn’t know a machine would have one. Ion exchange and reverse osmosis are used in aquarium, medical industry too.

As far as getting absolute pure water reverse osmosis is the only way.
However ion exchange can be made to get rid of undesirable elements and replace those elements with something that is acceptable. (Exchange)
Requires no special equipment and easy to use.
In an expresso maker an undesirable trait would be something that’s affects taste and/or mineral buildup,

And we just keep posting the same incorrect information.

 

[AZjeff]

I only use distilled water in my Keurigs and Mr. Coffee. Our water not only is hard water, it also has arsenic in it.

We're neighbors by western standards and have the same water. I use distilled water in the coffee maker and find the 14 cents per cup an acceptable cost compared to undersink RO systems and cleaning the coffee maker etc. I installed an electronic descaler to deal with the calcium deposits everywhere else and it works quite well and requires no maintenance.

 

[grasscutter]

It's the basket that holds the coffee filter is what I have to clean. It's a brown bitter chalky buildup. I use a paint brush and LA's Totally Awesome cleaner. Swish it around and dab the cleaner in between the basket splines. After a water rinse, the chalky brown basket is back to its shiny black self again. Coffee no longer tastes bitter. Don't have to use as much cream and honey that way.

 

[2strokeNorthstar]

i am kind of a weirdo i run distilled water through a zerowater filter (s/o project farm!) before it goes into the coffee machine

Distilled water doesn't make the coffee taste weird?