Micro Green Cartridge Filter

[BigBird57]

I changed my oil last week on the 2011 Sienna. The filter in question had logged about 5200 miles. I reached out to MicroGreen to get their feedback. To date no-one has bothered to respond. The attached picture shows the pre-filter all scrunched down towards the bottom of the filter. This does not appear to be normal because at the least we lost whatever advantage the pre- filter provides. At the worst this condition could have reduced the oil flow through the system. I have installed a second filter,so stay tuned to see the results when the OLM alarms on the Sienna.
The concern for me is the lack of a response. And yes, the filter was straight when I installed the filter.

Any thoughts?

 

[Dyusik]

The pre filter is for show to make you think that the filter is somehow different from a {whatevebrand] oil filter.

 

[AirgunSavant]

I use their filters as well as the Ultra and M1's
I don't use cartridge filters though. I have voiced my beef with MG responding for a sale but other than that you get silence. So after I use mine up I won't go back.

 

[demarpaint]

I was considering trying on of their cartridge filters, I think I'll pass now. Thanks for posting.

 

[WobblyElvis]

I would guess that during a cold start the filter has gone into bypass and the rush of oil has been towards the bypass valve dragging/pushing the soft foam outer liner with it. The Microgreen cartridge filters don't have the 2 micron filter disk so I don't see any advantage.

 

[DBMaster]

I am not sure why MG felt the need to start offering cartridge and air filters. Only the spin-on filters offer the 30,000 mile OCI option.

 

[WobblyElvis]

Originally Posted By: DBMaster
I am not sure why MG felt the need to start offering cartridge and air filters. Only the spin-on filters offer the 30,000 mile OCI option.

Not sure that is the case.
Look here,http://www.microgreenfilter.com/Site/Products/microgreen-element-oil-filter.aspx#category-tabs4

Their warranty is an interesting read. They suggest a 30,000 OCI but the warranty is only in place if the filter fails. What if the oil is the problem?
http://www.microgreenfilter.com/Site/Customer-Service/warranty.aspx

 

[DBMaster]

Originally Posted By: WobblyElvis
Originally Posted By: DBMaster
I am not sure why MG felt the need to start offering cartridge and air filters. Only the spin-on filters offer the 30,000 mile OCI option.

Not sure that is the case.
Look here,http://www.microgreenfilter.com/Site/Products/microgreen-element-oil-filter.aspx#category-tabs4


Now I'm scratching my head, Elvis. They have been making the claims about the micro filter disc in the spin-on filter being THE reason that the oil stays cleaner, the additives do not get depleted, etc. There is no such claim being made about the foam wrap on the cartridge filters. Even though I have been using MG filters and the 30,000 mile OCI (backed by UOA) I am now wondering if some of the posts about being able to do the same thing with something like Fram Ultra might also hold water.

 

[CT8]

It really must filter well .

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: DBMaster
Now I'm scratching my head, Elvis. They have been making the claims about the micro filter disc in the spin-on filter being THE reason that the oil stays cleaner, the additives do not get depleted, etc. There is no such claim being made about the foam wrap on the cartridge filters. Even though I have been using MG filters and the 30,000 mile OCI (backed by UOA) I am now wondering if some of the posts about being able to do the same thing with something like Fram Ultra might also hold water.


Unless the same oil is run in the same engine under similar driving conditions but with a different filter, it is impossible to tell. Maybe that is the basis for that marketing claim?

 

[goodtimes]

I wonder if the theory is the outer wrap filter has large pores for flow to the main element, and also very fine pores, allowing a % of fine filtering like the disk. That was a failed filter, for me I would stick to the OE. The OE doesn't have end caps, no worries if someone designed the end caps too wide and reduced the flow. That filter looks like playing Russian roulette with the engine. How is the oil going to flow around that blockage? It is a mess.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: WobblyElvis
Their warranty is an interesting read. They suggest a 30,000 OCI but the warranty is only in place if the filter fails. What if the oil is the problem?
http://www.microgreenfilter.com/Site/Customer-Service/warranty.aspx


Good luck convincing the oil manufacturer to warranty their oil for 30K miles of use, regardess of what oil filter was used.

 

[Linctex]

Originally Posted By: Dyusik
The pre-filter is for show to make you think that the filter is somehow different from a {whatevebrand] oil filter.


Exactly.

It serves no real purpose - it's just a gimmick.

 

[goodtimes]

The outer filter can work the same as a disk on top and allow full flow and fine slow filtration all in one. I think this must be the way it works. They didn't just put a foam sleeve over a filter and call it done.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: goodtimes
The outer filter can work the same as a disk on top and allow full flow and fine slow filtration all in one. I think this must be the way it works. They didn't just put a foam sleeve over a filter and call it done.


And you know this how? Considering they don't publish filtration efficiencies any discussion is complete speculation. You may think that's the way it works but it doesn't mean it does. How does a foam overwrap (any foam) function the same was a a sintered Teflon disk? The Teflon disk is supposedly a sort of bypass, how would that work for some foam that covers the entire outside of the filter? Unless of course it falls down and only covers a portion.

The desire to legitimize this filter company is strong despite a complete lack of technical data from them to do so.

 

[ZeeOSix]

The outer sleeve can't be the fine 2 micron filter. If so, then the flow restriction would be huge. In the spin-on MG filters, the micro-disk is in parallel with the main filter element so it doesn't add flow restriction to the whole filter.

MG says it's tested to ISO 4548, but as usual with no associated micron size.
http://www.microgreenfilter.com/Site/Products/microgreen-element-oil-filter.aspx#category-tabs2

They also say:
"The development of the cartridge microGreen filter was built upon the extensive testing of the microGreen spin-on oil filter."

Their cartridge filter is a totally different design since it doesn't have a parallel flowing, high efficiency micro-disk. It's designed more like a dual layer full synthetic oil filter.

 

[goodtimes]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
The outer filter can work the same as a disk on top and allow full flow and fine slow filtration all in one. I think this must be the way it works. They didn't just put a foam sleeve over a filter and call it done.


And you know this how? Considering they don't publish filtration efficiencies any discussion is complete speculation. You may think that's the way it works but it doesn't mean it does. How does a foam overwrap (any foam) function the same was a a sintered Teflon disk? The Teflon disk is supposedly a sort of bypass, how would that work for some foam that covers the entire outside of the filter? Unless of course it falls down and only covers a portion.

The desire to legitimize this filter company is strong despite a complete lack of technical data from them.


Ask yourself "and you know this how?" that it is just a foam sleeve. I provided an explanation of a theory how it could work. They are a bypass filter company. Two and two together. Of course I don't know, but it is closer to what you say you know. Actually I am pretty happy to probably have figured the thing out even though it is very simple in concept. I thought it was a gimmick but keep an open mind towards things that they may have had some idea. A partial fine and partial coarse filter works like the separate disk, think about it. I don't legitimize any company. I have complained about the closed ADBV situation to them with no response. Putting motives in other people's minds is not a good practice.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Ask yourself "and you know this how?" that it is just a foam sleeve. I provided an explanation of a theory how it could work. They are a bypass filter company. Two and two together. Of course I don't know, but it is closer to what you say you know. Actually I am pretty happy to probably have figured the thing out even though it is very simple in concept. I thought it was a gimmick but keep an open mind towards things that they may have had some idea. A partial fine and partial coarse filter works like the separate disk, think about it. I don't legitimize any company. I have complained about the closed ADBV situation to them with no response. Putting motives in other people's minds is not a good practice.


Like ZeeOSix discussed it cannot work the same as the sintered Teflon disk, that's impossible. The filter would be in continual bypass.

 

[goodtimes]

It won't explode if there are enough pores coarse enough to full flow to the inner element. It would bypass anyway before exploding. Then the other % of fine pores gradually fine filters the oil. That's how the disk works essentially, a small amount of oil is filtered finer. All the surface of the pre filter is exposed to oil pressure equally and very fine pores will pass oil slowly, but filter finely. Eventually all the oil passes through the fine pores, same like with the disk. That's my theory on it.

 

[ZeeOSix]

It's just a foam sleeve. My take is the green foam layer takes out the larger particles and the inner media does the fine filtering. Really no different than what an Ultra does. There is no 'bypass' parallel filtering going on like in the MG spin-ons. If the overall flow restriction is too high, it's a useless filter for 10K miles of use. And try asking MG what the 'Flow vs GPM' flow restriction curve looks like.

I'm betting if MG would actually give the ISO 4548 test data at 20 microns or larger that it wouldn't be any better than the Ultra ... possibly even not as good.