Michelin Premier A/S ??

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: badtlc
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=182&cid=


Looks like the lack of tread depth fears are likely unfounded. What an awesome display from the Premier A/S and I'm not even a fan of Michelin.


And comparing this tire to a Pilot Super Sport is not likely fair at all. Two wildly different tires unlikely to be on the same cars IMO. Plus, even PSS's are now warranted to last 30k miles. I was amazed, as I had sets of them on tracked Vettes that were gone in 6k miles.

This tire is a new concept. We need some time to see how good it is. Thanks to the early adopters who post up...

 

[Volvohead]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
This tire is a new concept. We need some time to see how good it is. Thanks to the early adopters who post up...


Exactly.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: badtlc
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=182&cid=


Looks like the lack of tread depth fears are likely unfounded. What an awesome display from the Premier A/S and I'm not even a fan of Michelin.


And comparing this tire to a Pilot Super Sport is not likely fair at all. Two wildly different tires unlikely to be on the same cars IMO. Plus, even PSS's are now warranted to last 30k miles. I was amazed, as I had sets of them on tracked Vettes that were gone in 6k miles.

Michelin specifically halves the treadwear warranty for tires that can't be rotated. They also disclaim warranty coverage for any tire that's been used for "racing".

 

[leeharvey418]

Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Michelin specifically halves the treadwear warranty for tires that can't be rotated.

I'd ask you to name the specific Michelin tire that's asymmetric and directional, and available in a staggered fitment combination for a particular vehicle... because that's the only way that a tire can't be rotated.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: leeharvey418
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Michelin specifically halves the treadwear warranty for tires that can't be rotated.

I'd ask you to name the specific Michelin tire that's asymmetric and directional, and available in a staggered fitment combination for a particular vehicle... because that's the only way that a tire can't be rotated.


Yep, one thing I can tell you guys is we buy a LOT of tires here, overwhelmingly Michelins. We get excellent service, and have had only one bad tire in decades, which was replaced free.

My car has never had any tires last over 20k miles ever, and they indeed do warranty my 275/35/20 Super Sports for a full 30k miles. Unbelievable, but true...

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: leeharvey418
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Michelin specifically halves the treadwear warranty for tires that can't be rotated.

I'd ask you to name the specific Michelin tire that's asymmetric and directional, and available in a staggered fitment combination for a particular vehicle... because that's the only way that a tire can't be rotated.

He said a Vette. Most recent models come with different front/rear tire sizes. A C6 doesn't even have the same wheel diameter front/rear.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I always thought it would be unwise to rotate in such a situation.

 

[leeharvey418]

Yeah, I didn't think my argument through completely. A directional tire in a staggered setup couldn't be rotated without de-mounting the tire from the wheel.

The premise that Michelin would halve the mileage warranty still seems fishy to me, though.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: leeharvey418
The premise that Michelin would halve the mileage warranty still seems fishy to me, though.

Why?

These warranties are based on tires wearing evenly, and if only one axle is driven (like on most cars), then the only way to assure that is to rotate.

 

[leeharvey418]

Why?

Because I'm loathe to believe anything I read on the interwebs.

But seriously, wear patterns are affected by a whole list of factors, and whether they're on a drive axle or not is only one item on that list. Add to that the fact that BMW specifically advises not to rotate (and last I checked, there were at least a couple of Michelin tires that were OE on BMWs) and you're starting to get into a complicated situation that likely wouldn't be worth the time and effort of Michelin's warranty adjusters to run to ground every time they get a claim.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: leeharvey418
Why?

Because I'm loathe to believe anything I read on the interwebs.

But seriously, wear patterns are affected by a whole list of factors, and whether they're on a drive axle or not is only one item on that list. Add to that the fact that BMW specifically advises not to rotate (and last I checked, there were at least a couple of Michelin tires that were OE on BMWs) and you're starting to get into a complicated situation that likely wouldn't be worth the time and effort of Michelin's warranty adjusters to run to ground every time they get a claim.

It's in the warranty terms.

Quote:
http://www.michelinman.com/mediabin/Appr...romise_Plan.pdf

Treadwear

If the tire treadwear does not reach its mileage warranty a pro rata replacement of the tire may be available under this warranty. For the mileage warranty associated with a specific tire, please see your Michelin tire retailer or visit www.michelinman.com/promise.

In order to maintain the treadwear warranty on your tires, the tires must be rotated every 6,000 to 8,000 miles (10,000 -12,000 km), or as recommended by the vehicle manufacturer, whichever rotation period is less. Failure to rotate the tires as provided herein voids the treadwear warranty.

Note that if you use different size tires on the front and rear axles your tires cannot be rotated as recommended by Michelin. As a result, the mileage warranty on each rear tire will be half that specified.

Funny that they make it only the rear tires that get the halved treadwear warranty. I would think it's possible for a front-wheel drive vehicle to have a mismatched tire setup. They seem to assume that such setups with only be rear-wheel drive.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: y_p_w

Funny that they make it only the rear tires that get the halved treadwear warranty. I would think it's possible for a front-wheel drive vehicle to have a mismatched tire setup. They seem to assume that such setups with only be rear-wheel drive.

Can you think of any FWD cars that have staggered setups? I can't think of any, but that doesn't mean there aren't any...

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted By: Volvohead
You're missing the point.

It may be a superior tire all the way through its tread life.

But if its effective tread life is only 30-35k, that's not so great.

It's certainly not good considering how much they go for.

Certain Pilot Sports had that problem. Best in class for too short a time.




No, I'm not. It is still a 60k tire from Michelin. You don't see many complaints about Michelin overrating their tires.

 

[Cooper]

I have posted here and have seen others.....

My experience. I got about 30k miles out of the newer Michelin Primacy MXM4 tires. They were rotated every 5k. The cars suspension was good. Nice even wear.

They were dry rotted and worn to 3/32 at 30k.....

Just like every set of Michelin tires I have ever owned, they were overrated.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Cooper
Just like every set of Michelin tires I have ever owned, they were overrated.

Every tire mfg has some mediocre tires in their lineup, and so does Michelin. I've had quite a few, and considering their price, I must agree. But we can't generalize. They do have a few standout tires in their portfolio as well... Pilot Super Sport, X-Ice Xi3, etc.

 

[SteveSRT8]

I love when you hear the 'debbie downer' comments. They are very entertaining.

My tire budget for last fiscal year was about 4000 dollars. Every penny was spent on Michelins, only.

We were very satisfied, and continue to be. The funny thing is, after years of using them on our fleet, we now know they are by far the CHEAPEST tire out there, on a per mile basis. But their initial high price sends many looking elsewhere.

I'm sure Michelin somewhat resembles other mfgrs, all of them make some dogs. Some FAR more than others...

 

[Rand]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8


I'm sure Michelin somewhat resembles other mfgrs, all of them make some dogs. Some FAR more than others...


This is so unbelievably true.

And sometimes the most expensive tires are the worst offenders.

for example the putrid trash subaru puts on their new foresters yokohama geolander g95a and g91f

both near 200$ a tire.. yokohama's most expensive tire on tirerack.

Both incredibly bad turds in the winter compared to other tires that cost half as much.

This from a car manufacturer that is providing a car that has an unstoppable winter reputation.
Makes no sense.


Michelin's worst tires are their oem tires (like almost all manufacturers)

Thats because the car manufacturer provides the specs they have to meet.

My major beef with the premier A/S is their incredible price for a 60k tire with 8.5/32

Tirerack's testing is informative but not real world.

If they were 150$ in my size instead of 200$ most likely I'd try them, but there are so many tires cheaper I could try including their own michelin pilot sport as/3 etc.

A mileage warranty is usually near useless to me because I dont run tires to 2/32

 

[SteveSRT8]

^^^I have had unbelievably bad Goodyears on my car as OEM. RSA's that stunk in the dry, stunk in the wet, and didn't even last well!
They were terrible tires.

Toyos, hankook, Pirelli, I've had one dog from all of them. Then Toyo really surprised my on my car when I bought Proxes 4.

Dogs are everywhere...

 

[CapriRacer]

I'm enjoying this discussion concerning tires that come OE. I am hoping everyone understands that the vehicle manufacturer designs the tires, not the tire manufacturer. Put another way, the vehicle manufacturer sets the specs and the tire manufacturer meets them or he doesn't supply tires!

So all those "dogs" are that way because the vehicle manufacturer has priorities that are different than the consumer's.

For example: Tires consume a certain amount of fuel. In order to get good fuel economy numbers (that are required to be prominently displayed on the windows of all new cars), the vehicle manufacturers will require tires with low rolling resistance. To get low RR values, the treadwear and/or traction has to be sacrificed. Sometimes this doesn't work out so well, but the vehicle manufacturers don't provide a warranty on the tires (with a few exceptions) - the tire manufacturer does (and they view this as a cost of doing business). The vehicle manufacturers not only don't hear much about the problems they create, but there is no financial incentive for them to fix it.

 

[supton]

Am enjoying the conversation also.

Here in New England I haven't run across min tread depth for winter, so starting out with low tread won't run me afoul of the law. So don't care about that. Care more about cost/mile. These A/S's seem like they might go the distance. Only complication: I feel burnt by the Primacy MXV4's. If I go look at Tirerack, my size tire was only 500 UTOG instead of the 620 that the other sizes are! Bald at 43kmiles. And IMO scary in snow conditions anyhow. By dropping from a $150/tire to a $100/tire (price approx) I can almost get a set of snows for free.

I'm going to wait and see how these LTX's on my truck do. If they are kaput at 40k (like every other tire I've used in the last 15 years) then I too am done with Michelin.

 

[leeharvey418]

Huh... well, thanks.

Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Note that if you use different size tires on the front and rear axles your tires cannot be rotated as recommended by Michelin.


There's the kicker.

It still makes me wonder how they handle treadwear warranties on directional tires...