Methanol-free washer fluid?

kschachn · Nov 21, 2015

Originally Posted By: NateDN10
To be fair though, while ethanol is "less poisonous" than methanol, and we obviously drink it regularly in very small quantities, drinking enough ethanol will still kill you.

Yes.

meborder · Nov 21, 2015

Read the data sheets and you will find that most of them have ethylene or propylene glycol in them too.

I've never tried drinking it, but it does smell good.....

kschachn · Nov 21, 2015

Originally Posted By: meborder
Read the data sheets and you will find that most of them have ethylene or propylene glycol in them too.

I've never tried drinking it, but it does smell good.....

I'm not too worried about propylene glycol, the metabolites aren't especially toxic. Ethylene glycol isn't all that toxic in and of itself either, but it's what you metabolize it into that kills you.

volk06 · Nov 21, 2015

Originally Posted By: akela
Originally Posted By: volk06
This is really something that should not be this big of a deal. Antifreeze is more lethal than the methanol concentration in any windshield washer fluid.

I thought the difference is obvious: antifreeze (or, say, brake fluid) is circulating in the closed system. No vapours, no contact with skin.

And, I am not trying to convince anybody. I just want my washer fluid to be non-poisonous (well, almost, relative to methanol). Matter of personal preference.

Windshield washer fluid should have no contact with skin either and the vapors created from washer fluid is minimal. So that argument is moot. As some have already mentioned, the potent washer fluids have small amounts of antifreeZe in them. Hence one of the points of my original comment.

sleddriver · Nov 21, 2015

Make your own using isopropanol. It's cheap and widely available. Consumer Reports published a recipe for DIY glass cleaner a few decades ago and I use it in the sled as well.

Fill a gallon jug half full of water, then add:

16oz of isopropanol
1/2 tsp Dawn dish detergent
1/4 ammonia (or more for really dirty areas or where there are lots of bugs on the windshield)
1 Tblspn Jet Dry (my own addition. You can also add a cap of Photo-flo).

Top off to make a gallon.

Garak · Nov 21, 2015

Originally Posted By: volk06
This is really something that should not be this big of a deal.

BC in general, and Vancouver, specifically, is the California of the North. They tend to worry about very inconsequential things.

I've never even heard of non-methanol washer fluid mentioned by anyone outside of BC or California. Personally, I buy the all-season premium stuff, which is good to -45 C but also has extra detergent for bugs in the summer. I like playing around with washer fluid by season about as much as I'd enjoy oil changes based upon the seasons.

Jarlaxle · Nov 22, 2015

I use Prestone's yellow de-icer.

You can;t buy it in Kalifornia, so you know it should work pretty well!

C4Dave · Nov 22, 2015

Airports use potassium acetate to de-ice planes and runways. You could probably come up with a recipe for windshield washer fluid using this.

mjoekingz28 · Nov 22, 2015

Originally Posted By: mclasser
Originally Posted By: akela
As we know, the methanol-based washer fluid is very poisonous. Drink one glass of this stuff, and you can be dead.

We are not supposed to drink the washer fluid, but still it may easily come into contact with skin, and we definitely likely to inhale the vapors coming through the ventilation/heater system.

Don't ever drink the stuff, wear gloves when refilling it and put the HVAC on recirc. Boom! Problem solved.

Does not Mercedes-Benz say not to spill it under the hood when refilling the reservoir?

kschachn · Nov 22, 2015

I still want to know where he's buying undenatured EtOH, if in fact he is.

akela · Nov 22, 2015

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: akela
And, I am not trying to convince anybody. I just want my washer fluid to be non-poisonous (well, almost, relative to methanol). Matter of personal preference.

Where are you getting undenatured ethyl alcohol? You do realize that unless you pay the tax or have a research permit, all EtOH is denatured, usually with methanol.

Rubbing alcohol, ehtanol-based, 95%. At Real Canadian Superstore. 500 ml bottle for around $2.70 CAD
"Rubbing", as I understand, means that it's no more poisonous than pure ehtanol.

They have isopropyl rubbing alcohol as well (similar bottle, similar price), but I think it's less efficient in lowering the freezing point when being mixed with water.

Nate1979 · Nov 22, 2015

^^^^ Rubbing alcohol is denatured and has components that can make it toxic.

Garak · Nov 22, 2015

Originally Posted By: akela
Rubbing alcohol, ehtanol-based, 95%. At Real Canadian Superstore. 500 ml bottle for around $2.70 CAD
"Rubbing", as I understand, means that it's no more poisonous than pure ehtanol.

That's denatured ethanol, in that it will have enough methanol in it to be poisonous. Denatured ethanol is mandatory for sale in Canada, just like it is in the States. You can only get pure ethanol (well 95% ethanol 5% water) as a product like Everclear, which is taxed accordingly as beverage alcohol. Or, labs can obtain absolute ethanol, but you're not finding that on Superstore's shelves.

55Test · Nov 22, 2015

I once bought 12 bottles of Bio-Green methanol free washer fluid that was on clearance for 1 buck a bottle from walmart. It honest-to-god smelled like strong urinal cakes. Guess that was the reason why it never sold

akela · Nov 23, 2015

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: akela
Rubbing alcohol, ehtanol-based, 95%. At Real Canadian Superstore. 500 ml bottle for around $2.70 CAD
"Rubbing", as I understand, means that it's no more poisonous than pure ehtanol.

That's denatured ethanol, in that it will have enough methanol in it to be poisonous. Denatured ethanol is mandatory for sale in Canada, just like it is in the States. You can only get pure ethanol (well 95% ethanol 5% water) as a product like Everclear, which is taxed accordingly as beverage alcohol. Or, labs can obtain absolute ethanol, but you're not finding that on Superstore's shelves.

Nope. No methanol in the ingredients list. How could it possibly be there, it's medical product, and regulated as such.

akela · Nov 23, 2015

Originally Posted By: Nate1979
^^^^ Rubbing alcohol is denatured and has components that can make it toxic.

it's denaturated not my poisoning it, buy rather by adding small amounts of components that make it taste and smell extremely unpeasant.
In case of rubbing alcohol, it's denatonium (bitterer) and diethyl phtalate (bad odor).

kschachn · Nov 23, 2015

Originally Posted By: akela
"Rubbing", as I understand, means that it's no more poisonous than pure ehtanol.

They have isopropyl rubbing alcohol as well (similar bottle, similar price), but I think it's less efficient in lowering the freezing point when being mixed with water.

OK, well my mistake then. There are a lot of specially denatured ("SD") alcohols out there, I was thinking of the ones that you get at the hardware store not the drug store. That's what a minor in chemistry gets you, enough to be dangerous.

And on a molar basis the freezing point depression is identical since that's independent of the solute.

SwampSurvivor · Nov 23, 2015

So last year on my way to NYC we made a gas stop at some random gas station in PA. Their plumbing was out and their portajohns were out of hand sanitizer.

I stuck my hand in front of the washer nozzle and sprayed my hand. What you are saying is - i should not have done this?

kschachn · Nov 23, 2015

I've never seen a study on the transdermal toxicity of methanol, but all the lower molecular weight alcohols can be absorbed through the skin into the bloodstream. So a short answer is no you should not have done that. But given how quickly it evaporates I think you would have to be in continuous contact for an extended period of time to do any damage.

Originally Posted By: Miller88
So last year on my way to NYC we made a gas stop at some random gas station in PA. Their plumbing was out and their portajohns were out of hand sanitizer.

I stuck my hand in front of the washer nozzle and sprayed my hand. What you are saying is - i should not have done this?

Colt45ws · Nov 23, 2015

Originally Posted By: sleddriver
Make your own using isopropanol. It's cheap and widely available. Consumer Reports published a recipe for DIY glass cleaner a few decades ago and I use it in the sled as well.

Fill a gallon jug half full of water, then add:

16oz of isopropanol
1/2 tsp Dawn dish detergent
1/4 ammonia (or more for really dirty areas or where there are lots of bugs on the windshield)
1 Tblspn Jet Dry (my own addition. You can also add a cap of Photo-flo).

Top off to make a gallon.
\
how much ammonia?

Methanol-free washer fluid?

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