Merc 3.0CRD Oil advice please.

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: CleverUserName

Originally Posted By: edyvw

No, but he did do two UOA.


Yes I did two UOAs and also there is another series of UOAs from a 2014 Chevy Cruze using Amsoil Low Saps and Biosyn CJ-4 posted on here somewhere. They had similar wear numbers, however the Biosyn handled water and fuel contamination much better and there was no bearing wear, unlike the Amsoil which did have some soft metals detected in the UOA. Dealing with oil contamination seems to be one of the major strengths of the Biosyn formula.

Neither the Amsoil or the Biosyn are Dexos 2 certified. Just like Delvac ESP.


I just can’t understand why you’d throw away a manufacturer’s warranty because you have such an unwarranted distaste for C3 oils. Why risk paying for a DPF or something like that out of pocket? Those are expensive parts.

Based on his wear number I think once he moved to HDDO he gained at least 60hp, increased life of an engine by at least 100,000 miles and increased mpg by 3-4

He actually took seriously my comment about two UOA.

 

[CleverUserName]

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46

I just can’t understand why you’d throw away a manufacturer’s warranty because you have such an unwarranted distaste for C3 oils. Why risk paying for a DPF or something like that out of pocket? Those are expensive parts.


I'm not worried about it. Also consider that I'm using an HVO as fuel, which isn't ULS D#2. So I'm probably voiding my warranty that way as well.

Sometimes if you want better results, one must take a risk and try something else.

Originally Posted By: edyvw

Based on his wear number I think once he moved to HDDO he gained at least 60hp, increased life of an engine by at least 100,000 miles and increased mpg by 3-4

He actually took seriously my comment about two UOA.


Probably increased the engine and DOC lifespan. Lower wear and reduced oil volatility will do that.

However, I actually think the 40wt oils made me lose 1 MPG.

No, I don't take your deprecating comments seriously, nor do I seek anyone's approval. I'll continue to do UOAs, post them here and make changes as necessary. If the Biosyn results are equivalent or better than Delvac, I'll keep using it. If not, maybe try the Ravenol HDEO next.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: CleverUserName
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46

I just can’t understand why you’d throw away a manufacturer’s warranty because you have such an unwarranted distaste for C3 oils. Why risk paying for a DPF or something like that out of pocket? Those are expensive parts.


I'm not worried about it. Also consider that I'm using an HVO as fuel, which isn't ULS D#2. So I'm probably voiding my warranty that way as well.

Sometimes if you want better results, one must take a risk and try something else.

Originally Posted By: edyvw

Based on his wear number I think once he moved to HDDO he gained at least 60hp, increased life of an engine by at least 100,000 miles and increased mpg by 3-4

He actually took seriously my comment about two UOA.


Probably increased the engine and DOC lifespan. Lower wear and reduced oil volatility will do that.

However, I actually think the 40wt oils made me lose 1 MPG.

No, I don't take your deprecating comments seriously, nor do I seek anyone's approval. I'll continue to do UOAs, post them here and make changes as necessary. If the Biosyn results are equivalent or better than Delvac, I'll keep using it. If not, maybe try the Ravenol HDEO next.

Problem is not do you take anyones recommendations or do you seek approvals. Problem is you are going from topic to topic and give "recommendations" based on your two UOA, because you know, engineers who designed engines as well as oils did not figured to send UO sample to Blackstone.

 

[Tikka]

This may make for interesting reading for those that have not come across it.

My OM642 has no DPF so hopefully be ok.

http://www.stephensservice.com/bluetec-diesel-issuesproblems/

Tikka.

 

[chrisri]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: chrisri
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: chrisri
Interesting topic. I've noticed few peculiarities.

Someone mentioned that a C3 oil in a SAE 5w30 grade will not offer same level of protection as a C3 5w40. That can't be right. Both oils meet the same spec, slight difference is in kinematic viscosity, purely cosmetic.

Someone mentioned that a 3.0 FPT built diesel does not exhibit same failures in EU- which is true, at least to my knowing. Same oil was specified on both markets.

There could be that either
Fuel in US and EU isn't same ULSF
Engines are not built in same factory/to the same standards/specifications
Trucks are not used in the same manner-seriously doubt that, and even so that is not an excuse.
Engine mapping for NA (to meet different emissions) is culprit for oil dilution with fuel- i would say engine have a weak bottom by design, and oil dilution isn't helping.

As for Opel diesels, all recent engines are FPT (Fiat Powertrain) derivatives, the JTD/Multijet, only 3.0 and 1.7 are Isuzu. 1.9 CDTI 8v/16v is identical to the Multijet. 2.0 is slightly different but still the same general design. Not sure for the 1.6, probably short stroke 2.0. All will do lot of kilometers on C3/Dexos2 oils.


Wait, OPEL used 2.0 multijet later in Insignia? I know they used 1.9CDTI. 2.0 and 1.6 if not directly sourced from FCA it is not derivative. OPEL/GM had some deal with FIAT regarding swapping engines in similar manner like with BMW when GM gave six speed auto tranny for 2.5 inline six diesel, but GM/OPEL never had any rights to continue development.

2.0 Opel version went through same modifications as the 2.0 Multijet for meeting Euro 5 emission standard. Bore was enlarged for 1mm, third generation common rail with higher pressure, new turbo/manifold, new DPF- now next to the engine.
GM still have engine research center in Turin, and rights to use and further develop 2.0 diesel engine. It was not part of a deal with PSA.
1.6 cdti is all alloy Opel design, has nothing in common with 1.6 jtdm, except the Combo, which is a rebaged Doblo using mjet.
1.3 cdti is FPT engine.

Those engines are/were used in everything GM had connection with, SAABs, Suzukis, Opels.
Fiat used 1.8 and 2.2 ecotec engines in Croma, 2.2 and 3.2 Holden blocks were used for Alfa Romeo- heavily modified with completely new cylinder heads.

OK I know all that when it comes to engine swap.
My question was that after GM and FIAT parted ways, whether GM kept modifying engines? or had to go with its own design.

They've kept modifying the same engine.

 

[CleverUserName]

Originally Posted By: Tikka
This may make for interesting reading for those that have not come across it.

My OM642 has no DPF so hopefully be ok.

http://www.stephensservice.com/bluetec-diesel-issuesproblems/

Tikka.


Irony! Nice read. Keep using the low saps oil your manufacturer recommends!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rX7wtNOkuHo

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Tikka
This may make for interesting reading for those that have not come across it.

My OM642 has no DPF so hopefully be ok.

http://www.stephensservice.com/bluetec-diesel-issuesproblems/

Tikka.

Government does not set NOACK, it is specific approval and it could be 15%.
If you do no have DPF, then that changes things dramatically. You could use in that case ACE A3/B3 B4 since DPF is not an issue. Much more options in that case.

 

[Tikka]

It seems to me that the guy writing the article is saying sacrifice your DPF in favour of the engine. Whilst expensive the DPF is cheaper than the engine. Not exactly ideal is it?

edyvw.
I am still trying to get my head around the meaning A3 B3 B4 etc. I have only begun to scratch the surface of lubricant knowledge

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: chrisri
Fuel in US and EU isn't same ULSF

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Tikka
It seems to me that the guy writing the article is saying sacrifice your DPF in favour of the engine. Whilst expensive the DPF is cheaper than the engine. Not exactly ideal is it?

edyvw.
I am still trying to get my head around the meaning A3 B3 B4 etc. I have only begun to scratch the surface of lubricant knowledge

Just use whatever it says in manual. If it is MB229.51, use oil that meets that specification. If it says MB229.31, then use again, MB229.51.

 

[CleverUserName]

Originally Posted By: Tikka
It seems to me that the guy writing the article is saying sacrifice your DPF in favour of the engine. Whilst expensive the DPF is cheaper than the engine. Not exactly ideal is it?

edyvw.
I am still trying to get my head around the meaning A3 B3 B4 etc. I have only begun to scratch the surface of lubricant knowledge

Yes, an engine is more critical and expensive to replace. Protecting the engine should be your priority.

Some DPFs still in good working order can be cleaned out using a detergent/solvent and hot water by professionals specializing in this service. Cleaning would require removal and re-installation labor but generally it’s much cheaper than buying a new factory part.

Also consider, in an engine that is good working order without any significant oil usage, 95% of the ash generated during combustion comes from the fuel. So using an oil with slightly higher SA has a minuscule effect on the life of the DPF. You can also install a vapor recovery device to remove nearly all oil vapor from the combustion process and then it’s no longer a factor.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: CleverUserName
Originally Posted By: Tikka
It seems to me that the guy writing the article is saying sacrifice your DPF in favour of the engine. Whilst expensive the DPF is cheaper than the engine. Not exactly ideal is it?

edyvw.
I am still trying to get my head around the meaning A3 B3 B4 etc. I have only begun to scratch the surface of lubricant knowledge

Yes, an engine is more critical and expensive to replace. Protecting the engine should be your priority.

Some DPFs still in good working order can be cleaned out using a detergent/solvent and hot water by professionals specializing in this service. Cleaning would require removal and re-installation labor but generally it’s much cheaper than buying a new factory part.

Also consider, in an engine that is good working order without any significant oil usage, 95% of the ash generated during combustion comes from the fuel. So using an oil with slightly higher SA has a minuscule effect on the life of the DPF. You can also install a vapor recovery device to remove nearly all oil vapor from the combustion process and then it’s no longer a factor.


If you did not say it, would would believe that engine is not critical component and not expensive to replace.
I guess engineers of Mercedes did not think of that, [censored] it.

 

[Tikka]

Thank you to everyone who has helped by adding to the thread. I appreciate it.