Meeting/exceeding specs, requirements, approvals

[neilLB7]

Out of curiosity, seems like alot of oil bottles, packages and product data sheets say alot of things in regards to meeting or exceeding something or another. If it has the "starburst" symbol it's API approved for whatever classification of service...SJ, SM or SN etc.

But when you read further and see things like "meet's the requirements of Ford XYZ" and such, what does that really mean? Does it mean Ford has tested the oil? Or the oil company has tested it themselves and self-proclaimed that oil does what Ford wants? Is there anyway to tell if the oil has actually been approved by a manufacturer through it's own testing and not that of the oil companies? Or is that even necessary?

I’ll take one example: Mobil Super 5W-20 conventional motor oil

On the website page it says under specs tab that…meets or exceeds the industry and OEM requirements of: ILSAC GF-5 (API-certified starburst symbol), API SN, SM, SL, SJ, Ford WSS-M2C945-A. It is recommended by ExxonMobil for use in applications requiring Ford WSS-M2C930-A, GM6094M. (Note: No mention of Chrysler MS-6395)

If you go to the product data sheet link is states: “Meets or exceeds the requirements of API SN SM SL SJ, ILSAC GF-5, Ford WSS-M2C945-A, Ford WSS-M2C930-A and Chrysler MS-6395. The following builder approval: Chrysler MS-6395.”

Thus one Ford spec gets a recommendation then later it meets or exceeds the spec. GM is mentioned, then later not on the PDS. Chrysler isn’t mentioned on the bottle or webpage then on the PDS it meets or exceeds MS-6395 and also gets a builder approval.

What’s a builder approval? And is the PDS the only document we should rely on versus the back of the bottle or the website page? Just curious.

 

[dparm]

I don't know if there's a consensus, but I air on the side of caution. If in doubt, I assume it is not formally approved (meaning tested and stamped by the manufacturer).

You can get the official lists by Googling around. That's the best way to tell, in my opinion.

 

[threeputtpar]

I would rely on what is printed on the bottle, as that should be up to date with regards to the product in the bottle. As we know, websites and PDS sheets are notoriously forgotton when the actual specs change and things need to be updated

That is strange that it says that it meet or exceeds ILSAC GF-5. I would think that all majors would have submitted for testing to ILSAC and API at the minimum. I go back to my first statement then and if the bottle has the starburst and donut, then it was tested and passed the tests for ILSAC and API SN, no questions asked.

 

[double vanos]

" Is recommended my Exxon Mobil for " whatever the product you're considering.
Well of course it recommended by them, they're in the business of selling the product! That doesn't mean the OEM considers it good to go though .....

Just my .02 worth...

 

[JHZR2]

The problem is that each manufacturer handles this somewhat differently to begin with... Then each vendor of product may or may not actually go for approvals. That may or may not matter.

The harder part s when one starts splitting hairs over exceeding certain specs, because how much and what it means practically (or what the other engineering tradeoffs are) is important.

 

[Clevy]

Meets or exceeds means the product hasn't gotten a formal approval,and the producers feels their product meets or exceeds the spec.
So those words meet or exceeds can mean different things depending on who's saying it.
It could mean that the product has gone through a series of in house tests and the blender has established that the product performs adequately or it could mean the blender got a voa and copied it this it's meets the spec.
Consider the source when it comes to those words. If amsoil Is saying it then I accept it as gospel,if city star is saying it I'd question if it does meet or exceed

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Meets or exceeds means the product hasn't gotten a formal approval,and the producers feels their product meets or exceeds the spec.
So those words meet or exceeds can mean different things depending on who's saying it.
It could mean that the product has gone through a series of in house tests and the blender has established that the product performs adequately or it could mean the blender got a voa and copied it this it's meets the spec.
Consider the source when it comes to those words. If amsoil Is saying it then I accept it as gospel,if city star is saying it I'd question if it does meet or exceed


Nope, it depends on whether the approval is simply a demonstration of performance and the testing can be done in-house or whether the product needs to be submitted to the OEM for approval (and variants of these).

XOM has the ability to run the API and ACEA protocols in-house. They are able to quite literally verify that their product meets or exceeds the requirements necessary to pass that requisite testing. We know the product is formally approved, as it is allowed to carry the API starburst logo. Ford simply requires a product "meets the requirements of" their testing protocol.

On the other hand, specifications that require formal manufacturer certifications like LL-01 are different and will be noted as the Chrysler spec was in that PDS. Mobil usually says "carries the following manufacturers approvals" or something along those lines.

Then, we have the third classification, which is "recommended for". This means the product has not been formally tested for the spec or qualification, or the spec is no longer obtainable (IE, the old Corvette spec) or the company is unwilling to pay licensing fees (many of the boutiques). In this case you are relying on the the word of the blender that the product is suitable for these applications.

 

[Shannow]

A couple of examples

Mobil 1 0W-40
http://www.mobil.com/Australia-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_0W-40.aspx
has the following
Quote:
Mobil 1 0W-40 meets or exceeds the requirements of:
.
.
Mobil 1 0W-40 has the following builder approvals:
.
.
According to ExxonMobil, Mobil 1 0W40 is of the following quality:


First group is tested and certified to industry specs, Second tested and certified to manufacturer's specs, third is their own "recommendation".

The third group includes "CF", which API no longer run, but Mobil would be able to test to. Important as many of the Japanese diesels sold (for example) in Oz, state "minimum of CF" before going off on whatever tangent the engine manufacturer has.

Another example
http://www.chief-oil.com/chicasaw-wrx.html
Quote:
Specifications level *
.
.
* Approval not requested


Means "Trust Us"...there may be testing, they may be blending "approved" additives and basestocks...on your own, depends how much you trust them for the price point.

http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/mo...duty-motor-oil/

Quote:
is recommended for diesel engines, gasoline engines and other applications that require any of the following worldwide specifications:


Doesn't mean that it's tested, nor even implies that it meets the specs quoted.

Clearly, the product doesn't "meet" A3/B3 that it is "recommended for", as Amsoil beleive that the "HTHS Min" is merely an arbitrary number.

 

[Garak]

Here are some more sheets that are good for comparison. Here is Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40 with its separate section for builder approvals. Here is a Petro-Canada sheet that includes a chart for which HDEO has which approval and which has which recommendation.

 

[fdcg27]

If you're buying oil made by a reputable blender, they won't claim that an oil is suitable for a service standard it cannot meet.
I'd tend to trust XOM, SOPUS and Ashland among others not to claim suitability for a certification the oil cannot meet.
I'd also tend to trust Amsoil and Red Line.
With some of the minor brands, you may be taking your chances but unless you really stress the engine and therefore the oil, that may not matter either.