Media shedding

[Hatsuwr]

Well if you think so. I think that there is a lot of imagination going on in this thread, phantom fears that haven't been supported yet.

I said a few things in that post. Which one specifically are you claiming is untrue?

 

[ZeeOSix]

Unfortunately the smaller stuff isn't going to be captured well by an old t-shirt lol. But the smaller strand at the end is around 20 microns. There were plenty of them, it's just a bit harder to image them, especially since I don't want to cut the shirt up.

Maybe try a coffee filter next time.

 

[ZeeOSix]

It seems Asian companies may pre vacuum for you and put a plastic over the end, but I have no first hand knowledge of that. They often say leak tested on the can too. There was some video of a guy doing the leak test in a factory.

In the leak test, they pressurize the guts with air and dunk the filters in fluid to look for bubbles. No vacuuming involved in that specific test.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I have personally NEVER vacuumed out an oil filter. Ever. Maybe make a poll to see how many BITOG folks do vacuum out a filter before use? Maybe there are some? I always inspect my oil filter before use.

I actually do inspect and clean everything, and also put a small vacuum on the outlet hole, mainly to get an idea of how it flows and if the ADBV functions easily and to get anything out that will come out ... mainly for after I clean up the threads is something fell down into the center tube.

 

[kschachn]

I said a few things in that post. Which one specifically are you claiming is untrue?

It wasn't about your post specifically.

I'll wait and see if Fantastic gives more specific details.

 

[Hatsuwr]

It wasn't about your post specifically.

I'll wait and see if Fantastic gives more specific details.

Fair enough. I'm curious where the disagreements stem from though. I think it's pretty clear that there is fiberglass media shedding that enters the oil. I supposed the question is just how much damage, if any, that could cause.

 

[twX]

Remember folks, it's the stuff sized 5 to 20 microns that damages your engine.

The stuff you can see is harmless.

Particles a lot larger than 20 microns also cause wear. It's just that in normal conditions they don't contribute much to wear, since they rarely get introduced into the oil, and when they do, they have a high change of getting filtered within a single pass.

According to this chart, 50-micron particles will cause around the same amount of wear as 5-micron particles, when they're present in equal mass. However, a single 50-micron particle is 1,000 times as massive as a 5-micron particle, so it will cause 1,000 times more wear than the single 5-micron particle would.

 

[ZeeOSix]

This is why you want a more efficient filter than not, especially the longer the OCI goes. Look at the area difference under the curves if each line represented a filter at 99% at 10u, 20u and 40u.

 

[oil pan 4]

This is why you want a more efficient filter than not, especially the longer the OCI goes. Look at the area difference under the curves if each line represented a filter at 99% at 10u, 20u and 40u.

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That makes sense the most efficient filter I have been able to find does 2 micron at 50%.

 

[oil pan 4]

With synthetic media filters often containing fiberglass, I started wondering about media shedding into the oil.

I did a quick test with some Fram filters. I attached a vacuum to the outlet of the filters with a ~1 psi differential and a t-shirt to catch debris. Results were interesting, and I would be very curious to see another test done with a differential closer to the bypass pressure, a better material to catch debris, and better imaging.

Anyway, here are some pictures of what I found. There were more small pieces than large, but they were harder to show with my phone looking into my cheap microscope. I'm guessing most of what is being seen is fiberglass or other media material, except that orange blob is probably from the ADBV.

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New fear unlocked.

 

[OLEJOE]

That makes sense the most efficient filter I have been able to find does 2 micron at 50%.

It doesn’t matter what micron the filter media is when the trash is in the center tube.

Maybe good for next pass if it makes it through the bearings or pushrods or any other small orifices.

 

[Olds394]

Fair enough. I'm curious where the disagreements stem from though. I think it's pretty clear that there is fiberglass media shedding that enters the oil. I supposed the question is just how much damage, if any, that could cause.

Fiberglass shedding oil treatment snake oil? “It’s like liquid roller bearings”
Kidding aside, I’m subscribed to this topic.

 

[Fair enough]

Obviously, this was inspired by the Fleetguard zoom & OP put it to the test (great job!). I think it was a good perspective about media tech & their potential "flaws" or "downsides". There are other particles other than fiber, yes, & there is going to be glue material that sheds as well along with fiberglass. That's what makes media made out of plastic (nano fiber) or "melt-blown" media a better option in this regard. Microglass has small pieces that have ends to them while better tech media is continuous. It solves that problem. Problem is I don't think Fleetguard has a lot of regular consumer/passenger auto applications? Perhaps we can get a list of "Melt-Blow" type media on here from other brands too. Here's some of what we've gone over.

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Great info, here is one more that I think makes the best oil filter for a car. If cellulose, also retains an amount of water.