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MC FL-500s (OEM) | 1,905 miles | Cut Open
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I like that leaf spring. Doesn't look like its going anywhere.
Looks similar to the one I pulled off my 06 Ranger way back when.. the FL400's from the factory was bigger than the aftermarket. Since you changed out the fill so early don't expect good MPG's till about 30k.
Can these factory filters be sold to the public?
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Can these factory filters be sold to the public?
Nope, they're only used at the assembly plant. My guess is the assembly plant filter is much cheaper to produce and is not as good, hence the need (including warranty) for the FL-500S.
Can these factory filters be sold to the public?
Nope, they're only used at the assembly plant. My guess is the assembly plant filter is much cheaper to produce and is not as good, hence the need (including warranty) for the FL-500S.
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Originally Posted By: Eric Smith
Since you changed out the fill so early don't expect good MPG's till about 30k.
Huh? I am already hitting 24-25 on the highway and 20-21 in the city. What does changing the oil early have to do with MPG? Are you trying to suggest the engine will not break-in without leaving the FF in until the iOLM prompts for a change? I sincerely hope not...because that would be a load of bovine scatology.
Since you changed out the fill so early don't expect good MPG's till about 30k.
Huh? I am already hitting 24-25 on the highway and 20-21 in the city. What does changing the oil early have to do with MPG? Are you trying to suggest the engine will not break-in without leaving the FF in until the iOLM prompts for a change? I sincerely hope not...because that would be a load of bovine scatology.
^^^ I want to hear this one ...
I've plotted the gas mileage on my '05 Tacoma since it was new, and it took about 10~12K miles before the avg gas mileage settled out at about 2 MPG higher than it was when brand new with very low miles on it.
I've plotted the gas mileage on my '05 Tacoma since it was new, and it took about 10~12K miles before the avg gas mileage settled out at about 2 MPG higher than it was when brand new with very low miles on it.
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Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
^^^ I want to hear this one ...
I've plotted the gas mileage on my '05 Tacoma since it was new, and it took about 10~12K miles before the avg gas mileage settled out at about 2 MPG higher than it was when brand new with very low miles on it.
So if it was 20, it went to 22? I would consider 24 in my case already "good", so we would need to define "not good" as the other poster suggested. Regardless, an early OC will not prevent the engine from breaking in and it certainly will not make my engine go from 16 (which I would consider bad in the Explorer) to 26 if I waited to change the oil.
^^^ I want to hear this one ...
I've plotted the gas mileage on my '05 Tacoma since it was new, and it took about 10~12K miles before the avg gas mileage settled out at about 2 MPG higher than it was when brand new with very low miles on it.
So if it was 20, it went to 22? I would consider 24 in my case already "good", so we would need to define "not good" as the other poster suggested. Regardless, an early OC will not prevent the engine from breaking in and it certainly will not make my engine go from 16 (which I would consider bad in the Explorer) to 26 if I waited to change the oil.
Originally Posted By: Joenpb
Nope, they're only used at the assembly plant. My guess is the assembly plant filter is much cheaper to produce and is not as good, hence the need (including warranty) for the FL-500S.
Your guess is incorrect. There is a member here that goes by the name "Filter Guy' that was inside guy at Champion Labs that makes the OEM factory installed engine filters for Ford and maybe a couple of others.
Per "Filter Guy", Ford and to some degree the other car maker brands, have two requirements for filters, one for original install at the factory and one for over the counter sales and dealership service use.
The filter specs for the OEM filters installed new at the engine factories differ for a few reason. Most of which is a thick metal casing and slightly more media. The reason for thicker metal casing is because the filters installed at the factory are tool installed by controlled instrumented tools either robotic or by hand with a instrument tool that counts not only torque but number of turns.
The different spec and made filters sold or used at the dealership do not require a robust design as installation means are less stressed than in a manufacturing environment.
By all mean, the filters installed at the engine factory are actually better constructed and just as good as the service filters sold at the dealership. As to cost, the factory filters maybe even cheaper because they are delivered in non-retail packing bulk in enough economy of scale to be cheaper delivered than the retail dealership filter even though base cost for the engine makers filter is probably more just on materials alone.
Nope, they're only used at the assembly plant. My guess is the assembly plant filter is much cheaper to produce and is not as good, hence the need (including warranty) for the FL-500S.
Your guess is incorrect. There is a member here that goes by the name "Filter Guy' that was inside guy at Champion Labs that makes the OEM factory installed engine filters for Ford and maybe a couple of others.
Per "Filter Guy", Ford and to some degree the other car maker brands, have two requirements for filters, one for original install at the factory and one for over the counter sales and dealership service use.
The filter specs for the OEM filters installed new at the engine factories differ for a few reason. Most of which is a thick metal casing and slightly more media. The reason for thicker metal casing is because the filters installed at the factory are tool installed by controlled instrumented tools either robotic or by hand with a instrument tool that counts not only torque but number of turns.
The different spec and made filters sold or used at the dealership do not require a robust design as installation means are less stressed than in a manufacturing environment.
By all mean, the filters installed at the engine factory are actually better constructed and just as good as the service filters sold at the dealership. As to cost, the factory filters maybe even cheaper because they are delivered in non-retail packing bulk in enough economy of scale to be cheaper delivered than the retail dealership filter even though base cost for the engine makers filter is probably more just on materials alone.
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Originally Posted By: Kuato
Since Ford is specifying a full OCI right from day one, perhaps they are installing a larger filter from the factory to catch the known residue from building materials.
Could be (although I never do that on a new engine); but it would be nice to know what they installed so that owner's could have a choice in MC filters. Although it is OK for them to install a larger filter from the factory, if we as consumers deviate, the battle could ensue about warranty status...blah, blah, blah. You know how it goes...
From what I have read on the Ford forums they use that filter to ease production. Instead of using a bunch of different filters they use that FOMOCO filter on almost all their new engines on the line. One filter for the robot ( or worker ) to have to grab.
Originally Posted By: Kuato
Since Ford is specifying a full OCI right from day one, perhaps they are installing a larger filter from the factory to catch the known residue from building materials.
Could be (although I never do that on a new engine); but it would be nice to know what they installed so that owner's could have a choice in MC filters. Although it is OK for them to install a larger filter from the factory, if we as consumers deviate, the battle could ensue about warranty status...blah, blah, blah. You know how it goes...
From what I have read on the Ford forums they use that filter to ease production. Instead of using a bunch of different filters they use that FOMOCO filter on almost all their new engines on the line. One filter for the robot ( or worker ) to have to grab.
Interesting take by Filter Guy on the difference between the assembly line filter and the Motorcraft over the counter OEM.
Based on thread below* Gary Allan (rip) has a somewhat different perspective on the difference between the assembly line OEM filter, and the Motorcraft consumer over the counter OEM. Quoting GA "The assembly line filters are 100% assured to be the absolute cheapest filter that can meet those spec's. It's a bid job and add straight to the cost of the rolling chassis."
And further: "The distinction between OEM assembly line filters and OEM aftermarket filters is that one is a line item on the rolling cost of the chassis coming off the line ..the other falls under normal ROI formulas....."
It's safe to say that both assembly line filter OEM and the Motorcraft have to meet FoMoCo specs. Also that a bid process is involved. But unlike the O'R MicroGard I would say that some kind of longer term agreement is present, and as long as FoMoCo specs and quality are being met, the supplier/maker is not going to be changed willy-nilly.
As to which is better, that may depend on one's definition of better. If as suggested the assembly line filter has a thicker can, than that could be a measure. But, haven't seen many if any complaints about the MC can thickeness. As for efficiency, since we don't know the assembly line spec, and now only know the FL820S spec, don't think anyone can say authoritatively.
All that said, both meeting FoMoCo specs and now especially knowing the FL820S efficiency, I'd have confidence using either filter.
*Meets or Exceeds OEM Specs
Based on thread below* Gary Allan (rip) has a somewhat different perspective on the difference between the assembly line OEM filter, and the Motorcraft consumer over the counter OEM. Quoting GA "The assembly line filters are 100% assured to be the absolute cheapest filter that can meet those spec's. It's a bid job and add straight to the cost of the rolling chassis."
And further: "The distinction between OEM assembly line filters and OEM aftermarket filters is that one is a line item on the rolling cost of the chassis coming off the line ..the other falls under normal ROI formulas....."
It's safe to say that both assembly line filter OEM and the Motorcraft have to meet FoMoCo specs. Also that a bid process is involved. But unlike the O'R MicroGard I would say that some kind of longer term agreement is present, and as long as FoMoCo specs and quality are being met, the supplier/maker is not going to be changed willy-nilly.
As to which is better, that may depend on one's definition of better. If as suggested the assembly line filter has a thicker can, than that could be a measure. But, haven't seen many if any complaints about the MC can thickeness. As for efficiency, since we don't know the assembly line spec, and now only know the FL820S spec, don't think anyone can say authoritatively.
All that said, both meeting FoMoCo specs and now especially knowing the FL820S efficiency, I'd have confidence using either filter.
*Meets or Exceeds OEM Specs
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Originally Posted By: Huie83
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Originally Posted By: Kuato
Since Ford is specifying a full OCI right from day one, perhaps they are installing a larger filter from the factory to catch the known residue from building materials.
Could be (although I never do that on a new engine); but it would be nice to know what they installed so that owner's could have a choice in MC filters. Although it is OK for them to install a larger filter from the factory, if we as consumers deviate, the battle could ensue about warranty status...blah, blah, blah. You know how it goes...
From what I have read on the Ford forums they use that filter to ease production. Instead of using a bunch of different filters they use that FOMOCO filter on almost all their new engines on the line. One filter for the robot ( or worker ) to have to grab.
This would have to be limited to certain engine families though. I am nearly positive this filter would not work on my FX4 (which uses a FL-820s) because the OD is too small and the gasket would not seal. Good concept though and I think the OEM shell was thicker than the retail which would play into the theory of robots installing the filters (less chance of a crush or dent).
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Originally Posted By: Kuato
Since Ford is specifying a full OCI right from day one, perhaps they are installing a larger filter from the factory to catch the known residue from building materials.
Could be (although I never do that on a new engine); but it would be nice to know what they installed so that owner's could have a choice in MC filters. Although it is OK for them to install a larger filter from the factory, if we as consumers deviate, the battle could ensue about warranty status...blah, blah, blah. You know how it goes...
From what I have read on the Ford forums they use that filter to ease production. Instead of using a bunch of different filters they use that FOMOCO filter on almost all their new engines on the line. One filter for the robot ( or worker ) to have to grab.
This would have to be limited to certain engine families though. I am nearly positive this filter would not work on my FX4 (which uses a FL-820s) because the OD is too small and the gasket would not seal. Good concept though and I think the OEM shell was thicker than the retail which would play into the theory of robots installing the filters (less chance of a crush or dent).
There are all sorts of theories about factory filters. Someone had stated a while back was so the dealer could tell if the oil/filter had ever been changed in the event of a warranty issue.
Who knows??
I know when my Ranger had the factory champ filter, I had some start up rattle. I have never had any startup clatter with any of the real FL400 filters.
Who knows??
I know when my Ranger had the factory champ filter, I had some start up rattle. I have never had any startup clatter with any of the real FL400 filters.
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