1987 Ford Bronco - used Motorcraft FL-1A cut open

[GriffinB]

This filter came from my 1987 Ford Bronco with a freshly rebuilt 460, it only has 2,769mi on it. It has had plenty of oil changes in that time though. This was with Valvoline VR1 10w30 Conventional oil. I did send off a used oil analysis for this OCI and it was received and should be done Monday or Tuesday. I have been getting some piston slap from the cold weather until the engine warmed up, I also borescoped the cylinders and saw scoring on all of them all on the front and back of the cylinders.

This filter was made in USA and I got it a 2 years ago, I got three of them at the time for $7.98. I won't use them again or any MC filter, not sure what to replace it with though, maybe a Fram PH8A or Premium Guard PG1A. Or a nicer Fram like TG8A or XG8A?
I was expecting the drain plug to have much more metal, I'm glad it didn't. When I wiped the magnet off I did see some bigger chunks almost like a flake. Not sure what it's from. This engine does have hydraulic flat tappet lifters in it, but it's a RV cam and everything else is OEM so low spring pressure.

Looks like a rubber ADBV, everything is quite dirty.

These pleats look terrible, it's like a FL-820S but double the length and just gets all wobbly. I do see around 85psi when the engine is cold at idle. Once warmed up it is at 25psi and 50psi cruising.

At least the back looks better, but the pleats are not evenly spread with some pretty much touching and bunched up. It sucks I have one more of these.

Here is the relief valve spring, and more dirt.

Inside of the cartidge.

Inside the housing.

 

[hemitom]

Freshly rebuilt to what extent ?
looks like lots of carbon ? and dirty oil for 2800 miles

 

[GriffinB]

Freshly rebuilt to what extent ?
looks like lots of carbon ? and dirty oil for 2800 miles

New pistons, crank turned, all new bearings, completely rebuilt.
This is what one of the worst cylinders looked like, cylinder 7.

 

[hemitom]

New pistons, crank turned, all new bearings, completely rebuilt.
This is what one of the worst cylinders looked like, cylinder 7.
View attachment 328487

That doesn't look like it was honed out at all on the rebuild ? could be just the pic though.

 

[Hootbro]

Who did the rebuild? Could have had under sized pistons that did not match the bore over sizing if done. If aftermarket Chinese pistons were used and not mic'd, they could be suspect.

In the end though, that piston slap is not going to fix itself without another rebuild.

 

[GriffinB]

Who did the rebuild? Could have had under sized pistons that did not match the bore over sizing if done. If aftermarket Chinese pistons were used and not mic'd, they could be suspect.

In the end though, that piston slap is not going to fix itself without another rebuild.

I did the rebuild and a shop did the machining. Pistons are .060” over, they were Enginetech so likely Chinese. I know more now and would’ve checked a lot more.

Sadly yes, my 01 Bullitt also has piston slap until it is warmed up, most prominent around 2500-3000rpm. It is pretty common apparently and people called it the “Death Rattle” on imboc.com.

I plan on picking up another engine off of marketplace at some point before they get too expensive or hard to find. At .060” the block is probably toast. I barely drive the truck as is with the terrible MPG so the engine very well could last 5 more years.

 

[loneryder]

It’s like parts of the engine are not getting enough oil.

 

[Lubener]

Oil and filter look pretty bad for a freshly rebuilt engine and 2700 miles on the filter and less on the oil. I recall FL1A's looking much better than yours. I stopped buying FL1A's when they went to a dome ended bypass valve and the price skyrocketed..

 

[GriffinB]

Oil and filter look pretty bad for a freshly rebuilt engine and 2700 miles on the filter and less on the oil. I recall FL1A's looking much better than yours. I stopped buying FL1A's when they went to a dome ended bypass valve and the price skyrocketed..

That filter and oil only had 1500 miles on it. I am hoping most of the black carbon looking sludge was from the assembly lube but I would’ve thought it’d be gone by now.

What did you replace FL1As with?

 

[Lubener]

What did you replace FL1As with?

Mostly Fram. Extra guards, Toughguards and Ultras. Whatever I can get a deal on. All of them have worked fine with my old Fords.

 

[bullwinkle]

Mostly Fram. Extra guards, Toughguards and Ultras. Whatever I can get a deal on. All of them have worked fine with my old Fords.

If you can find some wire backed XG8As that’s what I would run. That piston/ring scuffing is concerning! Baldwin makes 2 pretty good filters too in the HPG & MPG lines.

 

[GriffinB]

The UOA came in and I posted it here: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...ional-1-500-miles-1987-bronco-2-700mi.405404/

 

[jimmyjamesndt]

New pistons, crank turned, all new bearings, completely rebuilt.
This is what one of the worst cylinders looked like, cylinder 7.
View attachment 328487

Those scuffs are most likely from your initial break in, i recall you said it had retarded ignition timing and glowing red exhaust manifolds, I don't think it is severe, I would just run it, it will not get worse.

 

[GriffinB]

Those scuffs are most likely from your initial break in, i recall you said it had retarded ignition timing and glowing red exhaust manifolds, I don't think it is severe, I would just run it, it will not get worse.

Yep that's the plan. At some point I'll snag a used block and rebuild it if it needs it. I see them on marketplace for around $500.

I need to do a leak down test just cause and I'll do compression tests to see if they improve.

 

[ZeeOSix]

New pistons, crank turned, all new bearings, completely rebuilt.
This is what one of the worst cylinders looked like, cylinder 7.
View attachment 328487

Is the scuffing on the thrust plane, or 90 degrees to the thrust plane? If the arrow on the piston facing towards the front of the engine?

 

[GriffinB]

Is the scuffing on the thrust plane, or 90 degrees to the thrust plane? If the arrow on the piston facing towards the front of the engine?

The arrow is facing to the front of the engine.

 

[ZeeOSix]

The arrow is facing to the front of the engine.

So that's 90 degrees out from the direction of piston thrust. So could be that cylinders or pistons (around the ring lands) are not perfectly round. Pistons are typically not perfectly round down on the skirts (they are oblong in direction of the thrust), but should be perfectly round up at the top of the piston and the ring grooves area.

 

[GriffinB]

So that's 90 degrees out from the direction of piston thrust. So could be that cylinders or pistons (around the ring lands) are not perfectly round. Pistons are typically not perfectly round down on the skirts (they are oblong in direction of the thrust), but should be perfectly round up at the top of the piston and the ring grooves area.

I imagine the roundness was something I should've checked especially with using a cheaper piston? You'd hope the machinist checked but who knows.

 

[Bailey28]

I built several Ford 302 engines in the past. On one I used KB forged pistons with piston to wall clearance of .005-.006". Never again. That engine clattered when cold and I had th same bore wear pattern you have with the skirts rubbing the sides of the cylinder. I also used thin low tension piston rings and had an engine that smoked like it had 200k on it. The valve cover breather would smoke like crazy with the blow by.

I returned to cast pistons, standard tension regular width rings and tighter .002" piston to wall clearance. Learned my lesson with 'race parts' early on.

 

[OVERKILL]

Both Donaldson and Fleetguard make synthetic media filters for this application (FL-1A) but your compression numbers in the other thread are all over the place, and don't bode well for the health of this engine, so I wouldn't be tossing expensive oil filters at it at this point, just use whatever is cheapest until you get your engine situation sorted and have something healthier.