Mazdaspeed 3 trans oil

[double vanos]

In my '08 Mazdaspeed 3 the spec'd gear oil is 75/90 GF4. At 4000 miles I changed it out to Redline Mt 90 and now, since the weather has cooled off, the trannie grinds on the 1-2 upshift unless the trans is fully warmed up (even then it does it sometimes).

What's up with that? I've used Redline products in my other cars with great luck (especially my Bimmer). I'm thinking that RL's 75/90 is too thick for this application. I notice that the spec sheets of Amsoils 75/90 manual tran oil lists it as being slightly thinner all across the temp range (less cst).

Anybody got any ideas on what to do? I've thought that maybe Redline MTL would be better but it's weight is like a 70/80 with a lower cst. Kinda in a quandry here any help would be appreciated....DV

 

[aquariuscsm]

I`ve got the Nissan OEM MTF 75W85 in my manual transmission. So far it`s very smooth cold or hot. Do you know who makes the manual transmission in your car?

 

[mechtech2]

Remember that viscosities are a range, not an exact value of thickness.
The Redline MTL would be perfect for winter - the transmission fluid doesn't get as hot as in summer.
Or, you could drain out 1/2 and fill with MTL for a 1/2 and 1/2 mix. This has been popular and works well.
Protection is more than thickness. You can have better protection and wear from a thinner fluid that is well made.
Amsoil MTL is another option, and a great transmission fluid.

 

[double vanos]

aquariuscsm:I've been sifting the net and I am suspicious that Mazda may use Ford branded 75w/90 GL-4. I found out about it on a Ford Focus board. I'm going to look into it.

Mechtech2:I am inclined to agree with you - redline products have been so good for my BMW I hate to give up on them. But this grinding has got to stop. I am at the point of reinstalling the old Mazda fluid (I saved it in a clean conatiner) back into the transmission. Before I do I think I will put a small amout of the MTL in with the MT90 that is currently in the trannie and see what happens. Any other suggestions? Also thinking of Amsoil's Manual transmission fluid - it sounds good too.

 

[cos]

double vanos,

For what it's worth - my '06 Fusion has a Mazda G5M transaxle that also specs a GL4 75W90. I'm running Redline (two qts of MT-90 and one qt of MTL) and it shifts great.

 

[gtx510]

What transmission would Ford use a 75W90 GL-4 in besides a Mazda transmission?
T-5's and Tremec's use ATF.
Maybe its Mazda's GL-4?

anyhow, use...
Redline MT-90 or 75W90NS
Amsoil MTG

If you want more transmission wear but better cold shifting then run/mix something thinner like MTL or MTF.
How cold can it get in Houston anyways?
How much does it cost to replace an MS3 diff...

 

[unDummy]

Ford created a GL4 75w90 to reduce breakage in some of their Contour/Focus manual transmissions that originally required ATF. The Ford 75w90 is an option for anyone wanted a 90wt MTF and should consider it.

Mazda has always used a 90wt in most of their manuals. Mt90 is not too thick for this unit.

The MT90 should work well enough by itself. Make sure that the level is correct.
Thin it out 50:50 for improved shift feel.

Nissans 75w85 is another choice for better shift feel.

I also find that certain fluids work best after the 2nd fill. So if you have 10k or more on the redline mt90, change it out.

 

[mechtech2]

unDummy - Some of the early Contour, Focus, and Escort [and ZX2]manuals call for gear oil [G5M versions]. Then they went to ATF. Now back to gear oil.

 

[double vanos]

Boy, I tell you, I love this board!!!After listening to all of the replys, I decided to try a 50:50 mix of MTL and MT90. Shifting is much smoother and the crunching is gone! If I try real hard, I can get a 1-2 shift crunch by shifting real slow and just TRYING to aggrevate the synchros. But normal driving produces smooth buttery shifts.

Right before putting the mixture in, I got to looking at the factory fill; it was sitting in a clear jug (I saved it just in case) in the garage next to the jug of MT90. The MT90 was noticibly thicker! The FF had only 4k miles on it and it was way more fluid than the MT90. Mazda may spec a 75/90 but that doesn't mean the FF is 75/90.

Sifting the web last night I ran into 2 tidbits of info that were significant: the Mazdaspeed trannie has triple cone synchros on gears 1-3 and 4-6 are double cone; also, on a Corvette message board one their trannie gurus was mentioning that the C5-on 'Vettes have triple cone synchros and that they do much better with thinner fluid. Corvette manual transmissions use ATF for their trans fluid.

I put 2+2 together and bingo! the trannie shifts very cleanly. I've only driven it 20 miles since the switch but it feels and sounds really good.

So thanks to all who helped me! You know, we're a strange bunch of birds to normal people - when I mentioned that I was going to service the trannie at 4k miles I got told to just leave it alone, don't be messing with your car, blah, blah blah. But then these are the same guys that go for the lifetime fluids and haven't a clue as what motoroil is in their engine! UOA? Forgetaboutit!!

You guys are the greatest!!!Cheers DV

PS: I'll get back to you to let you know how it works out after being in the car for a while.

 

[aquariuscsm]

I still get the occasional 1st to 2nd gear crunch. I`ve thought about trying a fill of Mobil 1 ATF and see how it shifts,but I just don`t want to waste any money if I end up getting bad performance. But like you,I got better shifting/less grinding with thinner gear oil.

 

[double vanos]

Well, I had to come in to work tonite at 1 AM ( I work as a crane operator at the Port of Houston) and the trans is doing great! 40 degrees outside. Barring anything crazy happening, I'm going to stay with this 50/50 mix.

Does anybody know how to calculate what viscosity a 50/50 mix of MTL/MT90 would come out to? Curious about that. Cheers DV

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: double vanos


Does anybody know how to calculate what viscosity a 50/50 mix of MTL/MT90 would come out to? Curious about that. Cheers DV


http://www.shellglobalsolutions.teshosting.co.uk/calculations/blending_pop.asp

 

[gtx510]

Originally Posted By: unDummy
Ford created a GL4 75w90 to reduce breakage in some of their Contour/Focus manual transmissions that originally required ATF. The Ford 75w90 is an option for anyone wanted a 90wt MTF and should consider it.
iirc, the Fusion manual transmission is a Mazda transmission, an F or G-type. I'm not sure about the Contour, some had a MTX75.
As you said Mazda manual transmissions always require 75W90 GL-4.
Maybe they only had ATF at the factory when they were first assemblying Fusions in Mexico?
Maybe Ford rebottled Mazda's MTF?

 

[double vanos]

I emailed my mix to Redline and they figure that it's a 75/85.

I'll keep it in there until warmer weather ( in Houston that'll be March) and then give the MT90 another shot.

If the car still wants the lighter mix, I'll dump the MT90 and add some MTL and refill. Cheers.

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: double vanos
I emailed my mix to Redline and they figure that it's a 75/85.

I'll keep it in there until warmer weather ( in Houston that'll be March) and then give the MT90 another shot.

If the car still wants the lighter mix, I'll dump the MT90 and add some MTL and refill. Cheers.


Did they give you an actual viscosity?

 

[Pablo]

I calculate 12.9 at 100°. Which would make it an Xw-85.

http://www.lubrizol.com/products/automotive-gear-oil/J306.asp

 

[UncleRunkle]

Originally Posted By: unDummy
Ford created a GL4 75w90 to reduce breakage in some of their Contour/Focus manual transmissions that originally required ATF. The Ford 75w90 is an option for anyone wanted a 90wt MTF and should consider it.


The Contour and Focus never used a mazda manual trans. The MTX-75 was (and I think still is) the only Manual trans offered in the focus and contour; with the exception of the SVT Focus which uses a 6-speed Gertrag unit. Ford has back spec'd a synthetic manual transmission fluid for this unit that is a very good trans lube you might be interested in trying also (they originally had ATF and had poor cold shifting and durability problems). Depending on which ford dealer you go to you might pay from $8-16/qt for this fluid.

I use Royal Purple Synchro max in my highly modified MTX-75 with great cold shifting characteristics.

 

[cos]

gtx510,

My last car, a '99 Escort ZX2 with Mazda G5M transaxle came from the factory with Mercon ATF. The factory manual speced Mercon but did list an "alternative" fluid: GL4 75W90 (page 308-03-93 in the Ford Workshop Manual). My '06 Fusion's G5M came from the factory filled with what I believe to be a 75W90 (it sure didn't look like ATF!). The Fusion shifts better with the OEM fluid then my previous ZX2 and that was filled with Specialty Formulations' MTL-P. The Redline mix I currently use in my Fusion does shift better then the OEM fill but not by much.

 

[unDummy]

Ford produces an MTF fluid that is 75w90/GL4 that ANYONE could use and some should definitely try. Nissan makes a great 75w85 that is also an option. I didn't say that Ford used a Mazda transmission.

Mazda does NOT use ATF in their manuals and I don't NOT see ATF as an acceptable subsitute in a transmission that requires a 90wt gear oil.

I would stick with the 90wt to prevent wear and extend the life of the manual. Moving to thinner gearoil might improve shifting feel but at what costs?? A little shouldn't be an issue. But, I would drop below an 85wt without comparative UOA wear data. Flush it with ATF and you'll find out its 'weak spots' sooner or later, all for the sake of an easier shift or extra MPG. If a large automaker learned a le$$on, why would you want to?

 

[shpankey]

You are onto something though, as the new Mazdaspeed 3's now call for 75W80 instead of 75W90, like they used to.