Would My 2024 Subaru BRZ Transmission 6MT Be Considered a Synchromesh Transmission

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For my 2024 Subaru BRZ with the 6MT transmission, I've been considering the Amsoil 5w30 MTL as I always had good luck with it in my Honda S2000, even in very cold winter temps. Amsoil says that it is made for Synchromesh Transmissions. I want to use an MTF rather than gear oil that some people use. I am just wondering if my transmission is considered a Synchromesh transmission ?

I've heard people say the BRZ transmission is very similar to the S2000 tranny of the past and Amsoil worked well for me in that car. Subaru suggests a 75 W fluid and 75W LV as options. I don't know what fluid Subaru sells for the 6MT in this car as I can't locate a reference online but says it is filled with a 75w fluid. The Amsoil is thicker than a 75w, but I will only drive the car in 3 season weather, as the car will be stored in winter, I think it worked well in cold temps due to it being synthetic, the old Honda MTF2 didn't work very well in cold temps in comparison despite being thinner.

If I don't go with the Amsoil MTL 5w30 then I will run Redline MT-LV, both fluids seem like very good quality aftermarket options. Should I run an Amsoil fluid made for synchromesh trannies , or a thinner 75w fluid ?
 
Yes, basically all cars' manual transmissions have been synchronized since the 70s

You should use something similar to what Subaru says to use, so a 75w. The Amsoil and Redline products seem like a good choice for your BRZ.

In addition to the stickied list, there's also Liqui-Moly #20352 Top Tec 5100 75w
 
Yes, basically all cars' manual transmissions have been synchronized since the 70s

You should use something similar to what Subaru says to use, so a 75w. The Amsoil and Redline products seem like a good choice for your BRZ.

In addition to the stickied list, there's also Liqui-Moly #20352 Top Tec 5100 75w

Thank you for confirming this with me, I always wondered what the term Synchromesh referred to. The stickied list is great , I am just not familiar with all of those fluids, my experience is mostly with Amsoil and Redline. I'd like to try a tranny fluid to test out, but not a bunch of them. I will check the Liqui Moly , thanks for mentioning it.

The Amsoil MTF 5w30 has a viscosity thicker than 75w, so I wasn't sure entirely about it, but I've had good luck with it in other transmissions. The Redline MT-LV 75w is certainly closer to the Subaru spec in terms of viscosity.
 
Thank you for confirming this with me, I always wondered what the term Synchromesh referred to. The stickied list is great , I am just not familiar with all of those fluids, my experience is mostly with Amsoil and Redline. I'd like to try a tranny fluid to test out, but not a bunch of them. I will check the Liqui Moly , thanks for mentioning it.

The Amsoil MTF 5w30 has a viscosity thicker than 75w, so I wasn't sure entirely about it, but I've had good luck with it in other transmissions. The Redline MT-LV 75w is certainly closer to the Subaru spec in terms of viscosity.
I have posted this before but it bears repeating:

"Early on many manf. specified 5W30 or XWXX engine oils in transmissions because Dedicated (MTF Specific) Manual Transmission Fluids had not been developed to any extent..

Along came Delco/GM with a dedicated (MTF specific fluid) formula blended by Texaco called, "Synchromesh" and it had a 100C viscosity of 10.5 cst which by the chart link posted above, fell into the 5W30 engine oil viscosity. This was just after GM developed the synchronized manual transmission with an added brass synchronizer assembly.

So when you look at the chart link posted above for 100C kinematic viscosity, you will see that it falls within a 30 grade engine oil viscosity as well as an 80 Grade SAE Gear oil viscosity.

The problem with the SAE Gear Oil grade charts is that there is such a wide range of viscosities for any SAE Grade Gear oil, so we prefer to use the 100C viscosity when selecting a replacement MTF and ignore the SAE grade Gear Oil range.

For MTF's we usually refer to the 100C kinematic viscosity when choosing a replacement fluid since that viscosity implies a sufficient oil film thickness for the torque and horsepower to be transferred from the engine to the rear differential at the average temperatures encountered during operation.

Most MTF's for passenger vehicles and light trucks come with a GL-4 protection rating. This protection rating insures sufficient wear protection for gears, bearings, and the synchro assembly.

For most vehicles with simple transaxles a GL-4 protection rating is sufficient since the differential is of a Spider-Gear design.

Some MT's require a special MTF with a GL-4/GL-5 protection rating because the fluid is used in systems with a common sump in which the transmission gearing shares the same sump with a Hypoid differential. Since any Hypoid differential has high loading, a GL-5 protection rating is necessary."
 
I have posted this before but it bears repeating:

"Early on many manf. specified 5W30 or XWXX engine oils in transmissions because Dedicated (MTF Specific) Manual Transmission Fluids had not been developed to any extent..

Along came Delco/GM with a dedicated (MTF specific fluid) formula blended by Texaco called, "Synchromesh" and it had a 100C viscosity of 10.5 cst which by the chart link posted above, fell into the 5W30 engine oil viscosity. This was just after GM developed the synchronized manual transmission with an added brass synchronizer assembly.

So when you look at the chart link posted above for 100C kinematic viscosity, you will see that it falls within a 30 grade engine oil viscosity as well as an 80 Grade SAE Gear oil viscosity.

The problem with the SAE Gear Oil grade charts is that there is such a wide range of viscosities for any SAE Grade Gear oil, so we prefer to use the 100C viscosity when selecting a replacement MTF and ignore the SAE grade Gear Oil range.

For MTF's we usually refer to the 100C kinematic viscosity when choosing a replacement fluid since that viscosity implies a sufficient oil film thickness for the torque and horsepower to be transferred from the engine to the rear differential at the average temperatures encountered during operation.

Most MTF's for passenger vehicles and light trucks come with a GL-4 protection rating. This protection rating insures sufficient wear protection for gears, bearings, and the synchro assembly.

For most vehicles with simple transaxles a GL-4 protection rating is sufficient since the differential is of a Spider-Gear design.

Some MT's require a special MTF with a GL-4/GL-5 protection rating because the fluid is used in systems with a common sump in which the transmission gearing shares the same sump with a Hypoid differential. Since any Hypoid differential has high loading, a GL-5 protection rating is necessary."
Thank you Molakule, that is extremely helpful, thanks for reposting this info and thank you for the lists you maintain on this site. I suspect I may be best to follow a 6 cst viscosity then to most closely match the factory fluid, Amsoil 5w30 MTL is closer to a 10 cst viscosity , as far as GL-4 fluids go. My BRZ transmission doesn't share any diff part or sumps, so it has a dedicated fluid for itself. I love my Amsoil MTF 5w30 fluids but Redline MT-LV may just be closer to the factory spec , so that may be best ?
 
Here is the original white paper article on the synchromesh transmission posted in 2020 and in txt format since I cannot post the PDF version:

"Manual Transmissions and Lubricant Requirements

By MolaKule

(This white paper is directed toward light truck and passenger vehicle manual transmissions. We will not be discussing transmission lubricants for Heavy Duty truck transmissions or those transmissions requiring MT-1 rated lubricants).

In my view manual (or Stickshift or Standard) transmissions are more fun to drive than automatic transmissions. Manual transmissions require more driver interaction than do automatic transmissions. You can’t talk on the cellphone, or eat, or text when you have to shift gears.

In this paper we examine the internal mechanisms of the manual transmission and the effects of the lubricant’s viscosity and additives. We are discussing light truck and passenger vehicle manual transmissions. We will not discuss OTR or heavy-duty transmissions which use a different type of lubricant.

A modern manual transmission gearbox is of the constant mesh type, in which all gears are always in mesh. This constant mesh and the cut of the gears insure a rather quiet transmission. In any one gear, only one of these meshed pairs of gears is locked to the shaft on which it is mounted. The others are being allowed to rotate freely; thus greatly reducing the skill required to shift gears. Most modern cars are fitted with a synchronized gear box, although it is entirely possible to construct a constant mesh gearbox without synchromesh, as found in motorcycles for example.

Some manual transmissions are integrated with differentials to form a “Transaxle.” The differentials here are usually NOT the hypoid types found in larger vehicles, but are of the spider gear configuration. The exception is the Subaru system where the transmission and the differential share a common sump, hence the need for a GL-5 rated fluid.

Going from the top of the transmission case downward, we have the shifter mound which contains the shift lever and linkages. The shifter will have a seal or boot at the top with an additional gasket to keep the lubricant from flowing out when slung by the gearing. Below that are two shafts, one the input shaft and the other being the output shaft. The input shaft is splined to the clutch for power connect or disconnect. The output shaft goes to a universal joint, then to the driveshaft (a hollow “torque” tube), and the driveshaft connects to the differential via another universal joint.

An illustration of a basic manual transmission is found here, so exercise the shifting as we discuss the mechanisms (not a perfect illustration but makes the point):

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/transmission4.htm

Shifter Assembly: The gears resting on the top shaft, the input shaft, are locked onto that shaft and rotate at the same rpm as the engine. The bottom output shaft has synchronizers “splined” to this shaft, so they can move around as the gear ratio is changed. The gears on the output (bottom) shaft are allowed to rotate freely on the output shaft or on small roller or “needle” bearings, depending on the horsepower transmitted and the design. The output shaft will rotate at various rpms depending on gear selection. In first gear, for example, you want low output shaft rpm and high torque.

The shifter moves the associated linkage which connects to the shifter forks. The linkages position the shifter forks, and effectively “programs” the shifter forks in order to select the required gear ratio. I.E., for each shift lever position, the shifter forks are moved around to drive the splined synchronizers on the output shaft. The shifter forks have a bore so they can slide on the guide rods. There is a specified clearance between the shifter forks’ bore and the shifter fork guide rods. Lubricant effects: Too high a viscosity lubricant and the shifting will be hard and sluggish. More force will be required to go from one gear to another. Too thin an oil and the forks will wear, the clearances will increase, and the shifting will become sloppy and uncertain. The correct mix of base oil viscosities is needed here to insure good cold weather and hot weather shifting. Synthetics excel here because of their high viscosity index.

Synchronizer: The locking mechanism for any individual gear consists of a collar on the shaft which is able to slide sideways so that teeth or "dogs" on its inner surface bridge two circular rings with teeth on their outer circumference; one attached to the gear, one to the shaft. (One collar typically serves for two gears; sliding in one direction selects one transmission speed, in the other direction selects the other) In our illustration from above, the bottom or output shaft has splines that mate with the synchronizer “collar.” The synchronizer collar moves transversely on the splines, positioned by the shifter fork. When the rings are bridged by the collar, that particular gear is rotationally locked to the shaft and determines the output speed of the transmission by the synchronizer. In a synchromesh gearbox, to correctly match the speed of the gear to that of the shaft as the gear is engaged, the collar initially applies a force to a cone-shaped brass clutch which is attached to the gear, which brings the speeds to match prior to the collar locking into place. The collar is prevented from bridging the locking rings when the speeds are mismatched by synchro rings also called blocker rings. Notice, before locking and speed synchronization, a lot of shearing takes place at the interfaces and for the reasons given above. Most synchronizer materials are of brass, but newer synchronizers can be made of strengthened graphite composites.

Lubricant Requirements: A special Friction Modifier (FM) chemistry is incorporated into the additive chemistry to allow just the right amount of shearing before engagement. I.E., the FM gives rise to a specific dynamic coefficient of friction (COF) to allow engagement without “crunching.” Automatic Transmission Fluids (ATF) DO NOT have these specialized FM’s.

Note:
the specialized FM used in manual transmissions is NOT the same FM used in Limited Slip Differentials, nor is it the same FM used in Automatic Transmissions. It is important to understand that there are different FM chemistries for different automotive applications!

Bearings: Lubricated bearings are used to reduce friction between rotating parts. The older Munice transmissions, for example, used brass or sintered brass sleeve bearings or bushings. Most modern transmission bearings today, as can be seen by the links given below, are of two main types 1) Roller or needle bearings, and 2) ball bearings. Ball bearings or tapered roller bearings are usually used at the shaft ends to resist radial and transverse loads. Smaller roller or pin bearings are used inside the driven gears that idle on the output shaft.

Lubricant Requirements: A GL-4 rating and depending on the horsepower transmitted and the size of the bearings, the lubricant kinematic viscosities range from 6.0 cSt (DEXron VI ATF-range) to 14.5 cSt (equivalent to a light 75W90 gear lube) given at 100C. The anti-wear additives keep wear in check as they rotate in their races. Anti-corrosion additives keep the anti-wear additives from attacking the synchronizers, and anti-rust additives keep any moisture from creating rust on the steel components. For lower horsepower drive trains, the lubricant must be thin enough to penetrate the cages in the pin/roller bearing areas. For higher horsepower drive trains, the lubricant must maintain a thick film in order to protect the bearing surfaces. Of course, the lubricant is also used for cooling. Too thick a lubricant will cause poor cold weather performance and loss of mpg, while too thin a lubricant will cause undue wear. The lubricant also transfers heat from the bearings and gearing to the case.

Gearing:
Most gear types in manual transmissions are of the helical-cut type, which because of the cut, reduce noise and vibration. Due to their angular cut, thrust loads are transmitted to the shafts on which they reside. Lubricant effects: Being in constant mesh, they are dipping in the oil bath and slinging the oil up to the shifter assembly. Since they transmit torque, they must have an anti-wear/Extreme Pressure additive in the lubricant in order to reduce wear. The slipping and rolling action of the gear teeth causes localized high pressures and heating. The anti-wear additive forms a protective but complex ferrous film at the contact surface to protect from galling and other wear mechanisms.

Other components such as thrust washers and shims may also need cooling, lubricant film, and anti-wear additives as well.

Note: In the past reduced levels of EP additives were part of the MT fluid formulation, but modern formulations now use chemistries such as Multi-Function Phosphate esters, ZDDP, metal and rust inhibitors, Viscosity Index Improvers, and synthetic base oils.

Lubricant Requirements: Same as Bearings, with a GL-4 rating.

Rebuilding manual transmissions usually require only a modest rebuild kit consisting of bearings, synchronizers, and seals unless the transmission has been abused or the wrong lubricant has been used. In that case, gear teeth need to be examined for any chipping, galling, breakage, or other signs of problems."
 
Thank you Molakule, that is extremely helpful, thanks for reposting this info and thank you for the lists you maintain on this site. I suspect I may be best to follow a 6 cst viscosity then to most closely match the factory fluid, Amsoil 5w30 MTL is closer to a 10 cst viscosity , as far as GL-4 fluids go. My BRZ transmission doesn't share any diff part or sumps, so it has a dedicated fluid for itself. I love my Amsoil MTF 5w30 fluids but Redline MT-LV may just be closer to the factory spec , so that may be best ?
HPL's MTLLife's 75W is a 6 cSt fluid as is Redline's MT-LV. Have you ever had the fluid analyzed to see what the viscosity might be?
 
^ Can anyone think of a reason why I shouldn't use Redline MT-LV in my BRZ transmission ? Should it be sufficient to protect the bearings and provide proper synchro friction ? If it is the right viscosity for the tranny spec, are Redline Manual transmission fluids reliable in long term use ?
 
HPL's MTLLife's 75W is a 6 cSt fluid as is Redline's MT-LV. Have you ever had the fluid analyzed to see what the viscosity might be?

The car comes with a factory fill from Subaru, I am thinking it will be around 4-6 cst viscosity, the factory fill is 75w LV, a Subaru fluid but I can't locate it in the subaru parts bin. I need to call my local dealer and see what they supply for fluid swaps at their dealerships. The BRZ uses fluids that are different than the WRX models and Crosstrek models.
 
The car comes with a factory fill from Subaru, I am thinking it will be around 4-6 cst viscosity, the factory fill is 75w LV, a Subaru fluid but I can't locate it in the subaru parts bin. I need to call my local dealer and see what they supply for fluid swaps at their dealerships. The BRZ uses fluids that are different than the WRX models and Crosstrek models.

yes, with no differential at all in the gearbox, the transferred torque is about 4x lower than in a transaxle design. This means a thinner fluid can suffice.

MT-LV would be my first choice from the Red Line offerings.
 
^ Thank you . Thanks for all of the great replies in this thread and others, very helpful and appreciated to everyone who replied. The order for Redline will be made tonight , I will see how it works. Maybe I can get a UOA of the factory fluid.
 
^ Thank you . Thanks for all of the great replies in this thread and others, very helpful and appreciated to everyone who replied. The order for Redline will be made tonight , I will see how it works. Maybe I can get a UOA of the factory fluid.
I have always suggested that one obtain an analysis of the OEM fluid before ordering a replacement fluid to determine 1. the 100C viscosity and 2. to see what the additive signature shows so we can potentially match up a non-OEM fluid for the member.
 
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