mazda 3 2012 oil grade choices?

[badtlc]

Originally Posted By: coolbird101
I am still trying to figure out why anyone would run the ff for 7500 miles, with the exception of Honda with there moly inpregnated rings, how is it beneficial to run oil with elavated metal content? Is it the high moly that is needed for proper break in? Will a engine not break in properly without it. Could you just go back with another high moly oil? You could argue this increases cost of ownership by 30.00 and an extra trip to the recycle place, well worth it to me on my 20k or 30 k losing investment.
op - sorry for the thread highjack, I had to ask.
Originally Posted By: DBMaster
Still trying to understand why you want to change the FF at 3,500 miles.


The factory fill is designed to be in there for the entire OCI. There is enough evidence on this very site showing no harm being done by leaving it in. You are protecting nothing by changing it early.

 

[DBMaster]

I am just not a fan if unnecessary maintenance and waste, that's all. My OCI on my previous vehicle was 10,000 miles and that car was still running fine with its original engine at 355,000 miles. Of course, it was a Honda!

 

[bourne]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

The Mazda 0W-20 is a much lighter oil than Mobil 1 0W-20 on start-up at all temp's due to it's 221 VI vs only 173 for Mobil 1. Just take a look at it's KV40 spec' of 35.8cSt vs the much higher 44.8cSt for Mobil 1. That translates into an oil that is almost 30% lighter at room temperature and 40% lighter at 32F.

Since the Mazda 0W-20 is the specified oil for your engine, the electronic safety controls (that all modern vehicles now have) are designed around the viscosity characteristics of this oil, consiquently there is no increased high temperature protection provided in running a heavier oil.

The only reasonably priced high VI 0W-20 alternative to the Mazda oil would be the Mobil made Toyota 0W-20.




I was referencing to a happy middle ground for OP since he wants to use something heavier for extra protection (or peace of mind) , take it whichever way. used oil analysis on that engine have shown considerable amount of shear occuring over the oci. Maybe thicker might help? Unless Mazda knows that oil will shear and want it that way/ are ok with it. Same engine is spec'd upto 5w30 in Mexico.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: bourne
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

I was referencing to a happy middle ground for OP since he wants to use something heavier for extra protection (or peace of mind) , take it whichever way. used oil analysis on that engine have shown considerable amount of shear occuring over the oci. Maybe thicker might help? Unless Mazda knows that oil will shear and want it that way/ are ok with it. Same engine is spec'd upto 5w30 in Mexico.

I understand what you're suggesting, I'm just not into second guessing the Mazda engineers.

In another thread a Ford engineer explained why it was unnecessary to run anything heavier than the Ford spec' Motorcraft 5W-20 in the 420 HP Mustang GT even for track use.
He did recommend an optional oil cooler to keep the oil temp's down, but if you don't install one it's still not a problem as the electronic engine management controls will take care of things; i.e., reduced engine power to cap maximum oil temp's.

Point is, most if not all major companies have engine safety systems in place so that running any oil heavier than spec'd provided no additional viscosity protection. If you never notice your car actually go into "limp mode" on the hottest days when driven hard then that should provide all the "peace of mind" that one should need.

 

[SlipperyPete]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: bourne
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

I was referencing to a happy middle ground for OP since he wants to use something heavier for extra protection (or peace of mind) , take it whichever way. used oil analysis on that engine have shown considerable amount of shear occuring over the oci. Maybe thicker might help? Unless Mazda knows that oil will shear and want it that way/ are ok with it. Same engine is spec'd upto 5w30 in Mexico.

I understand what you're suggesting, I'm just not into second guessing the Mazda engineers.

In another thread a Ford engineer explained why it was unnecessary to run anything heavier than the Ford spec' Motorcraft 5W-20 in the 420 HP Mustang GT even for track use.
He did recommend an optional oil cooler to keep the oil temp's down, but if you don't install one it's still not a problem as the electronic engine management controls will take care of things; i.e., reduced engine power to cap maximum oil temp's.

Point is, most if not all major companies have engine safety systems in place so that running any oil heavier than spec'd provided no additional viscosity protection. If you never notice your car actually go into "limp mode" on the hottest days when driven hard then that should provide all the "peace of mind" that one should need.


Who was second guessing Mazda's engineers? He recommended 0W-20 grade which is what they specified for the OP's vehicle.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: SlipperyPete
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: bourne
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

I was referencing to a happy middle ground for OP since he wants to use something heavier for extra protection (or peace of mind) , take it whichever way. used oil analysis on that engine have shown considerable amount of shear occuring over the oci. Maybe thicker might help? Unless Mazda knows that oil will shear and want it that way/ are ok with it. Same engine is spec'd upto 5w30 in Mexico.

I understand what you're suggesting, I'm just not into second guessing the Mazda engineers.

In another thread a Ford engineer explained why it was unnecessary to run anything heavier than the Ford spec' Motorcraft 5W-20 in the 420 HP Mustang GT even for track use.
He did recommend an optional oil cooler to keep the oil temp's down, but if you don't install one it's still not a problem as the electronic engine management controls will take care of things; i.e., reduced engine power to cap maximum oil temp's.

Point is, most if not all major companies have engine safety systems in place so that running any oil heavier than spec'd provided no additional viscosity protection. If you never notice your car actually go into "limp mode" on the hottest days when driven hard then that should provide all the "peace of mind" that one should need.


Who was second guessing Mazda's engineers? He recommended 0W-20 grade which is what they specified for the OP's vehicle.

No, what Mazda recommends is their 0W-20 oil.
They just don't insist that you use their 0W-20 oil.
It would seem to me that an informed consumer would want to use what the manufacturer recommends or if they are going to deviate and use something else, they at least understand the viscosity characteristics of the OEM oil which goes beyond the SAE grade on the bottle.

 

[SlipperyPete]

Do you mean to say the viscosity characteristics of Mazda 0W-20 and Mobil 1 0W-20 are suffiently different that anyone would ever be able to tell any difference in their performance? Or that anyone at Mazda would care if someone used Mobil 1?

 

[addyguy]

Caterham needs to be a wee bit careful on what he says...

Mazda specifies a 0W-20 oil be used in this engine. LOf course they'd like you to use their 0W-20, as they make money on it...that is the main reason they specify it.

All OTC 0W-20's, AFAIK, meet Mazda's warranty requirements. They may not share the EXACT same characteristics, but they are all perfectly fine to use.

Caterham is getting a bit tooo much into obscure details that a basic owner is not going to concern themself with.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: SlipperyPete
Do you mean to say the viscosity characteristics of Mazda 0W-20 and Mobil 1 0W-20 are suffiently different that anyone would ever be able to tell any difference in their performance? Or that anyone at Mazda would care if someone used Mobil 1?

As I pointed out previously, the Mazda 0W-20 is almost 30% lighter at room temperature and a whopping 40% at 32F, so yes you should easily be able to tell the difference.

As to whether anyone a Mazda would care if a customer used M1 instead, it doesn't really matter as it won't void the warranty if they you do, which of course is a good thing. I'm all in favour of freedom of choice. I'm just pointing how the Mazda oil differs from moost other 0W-20 available (and I haven't even mentioned the 675 ppm of moly).

 

[bourne]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

No, what Mazda recommends is their 0W-20 oil.
They just don't insist that you use their 0W-20 oil.
It would seem to me that an informed consumer would want to use what the manufacturer recommends or if they are going to deviate and use something else, they at least understand the viscosity characteristics of the OEM oil which goes beyond the SAE grade on the bottle.



Please explain the wide spread use of Castrol Edge SPT 0w20 with its paltry middle 160~170 VI by all the Mazda dealers in the nation as their bulk fill. The local dealer here does not even stock more than a few quarts of the supposed "0w20" recommended by Mazda.

 

[SlipperyPete]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: SlipperyPete
Do you mean to say the viscosity characteristics of Mazda 0W-20 and Mobil 1 0W-20 are suffiently different that anyone would ever be able to tell any difference in their performance? Or that anyone at Mazda would care if someone used Mobil 1?

As I pointed out previously, the Mazda 0W-20 is almost 30% lighter at room temperature and a whopping 40% at 32F, so yes you should easily be able to tell the difference.

As to whether anyone a Mazda would care if a customer used M1 instead, it doesn't really matter as it won't void the warranty if they you do, which of course is a good thing. I'm all in favour of freedom of choice. I'm just pointing how the Mazda oil differs from moost other 0W-20 available (and I haven't even mentioned the 675 ppm of moly).


I think those differences matter far more on paper than anywhere else. Kind of a forest/tree thing.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: bourne
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

No, what Mazda recommends is their 0W-20 oil.
They just don't insist that you use their 0W-20 oil.
It would seem to me that an informed consumer would want to use what the manufacturer recommends or if they are going to deviate and use something else, they at least understand the viscosity characteristics of the OEM oil which goes beyond the SAE grade on the bottle.




Please explain the wide spread use of Castrol Edge SPT 0w20 with its paltry middle 160~170 VI by all the Mazda dealers in the nation as their bulk fill. The local dealer here does not even stock more than a few quarts of the supposed "0w20" recommended by Mazda.

I can only speculate that the Castrol oil is cheap and the Idemitsu made Mazda branded oil is what's the fuel economy and emission tests are based on. It also must be readily available to the Mazda consumer whether all Mazda dealers are stocking it or not it can af course be ordered.

At the very least the bulk oil that (hopefully all) Toyota dealers are supplied with is TGMO 0W-20.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: SlipperyPete
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: SlipperyPete
Do you mean to say the viscosity characteristics of Mazda 0W-20 and Mobil 1 0W-20 are suffiently different that anyone would ever be able to tell any difference in their performance? Or that anyone at Mazda would care if someone used Mobil 1?

As I pointed out previously, the Mazda 0W-20 is almost 30% lighter at room temperature and a whopping 40% at 32F, so yes you should easily be able to tell the difference.

As to whether anyone a Mazda would care if a customer used M1 instead, it doesn't really matter as it won't void the warranty if they you do, which of course is a good thing. I'm all in favour of freedom of choice. I'm just pointing how the Mazda oil differs from moost other 0W-20 available (and I haven't even mentioned the 675 ppm of moly).


I think those differences matter far more on paper than anywhere else. Kind of a forest/tree thing.

A 50 point difference in VI is hugh. To put the fact that the Idemitsu made Mazda 0W-20 is 40% lighter at 32F in perpective, the viscosity difference between a typicle 5W-20 and 5w30 is only 20%.
Additionally, if you have an oil pressure gauge it's very noticeable as dramatically lower oil pressure on start-up and the difference is still apparent at normal operating temp's. And even without an OP gauge I don't know of a single member who has switched to an ultra high VI 0W-20 like TGMO or the new Mazda oil who hasn't noticed the difference in terms of increased engine responsiveness on start-up and during warm-up.

 

[asharris7]

I've noticed it coming from Mobil 1 and Amsoil.

 

[SlipperyPete]

If the difference between 5W-20 and 5w30 is only 20%, how can the 0W-20's have twice as much difference and be the same grade?

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: SlipperyPete
If the difference between 5W-20 and 5w30 is only 20%, how can the 0W-20's have twice as much difference and be the same grade?

That's the magic of an ultra high viscosity index. There isn't much difference at normal operating temp's but on start-up, when the oil is cold, that's when the difference is most noticeable.

 

[Clevy]

The Mazda branded oil is a great oil on paper. I would go with it to be honest. It has a very high viscosity index,which Mobil states reduces wear at start up,and if you are under warrantee I would stick with what they tell you to use. I really don't think going thicker will improve anything in your particular case.
Jmo

 

[Garak]

CATERHAM: You should just idle your cars all the time and run a straight 20 instead. No one can complain about VI then.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: SlipperyPete
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: SlipperyPete
Do you mean to say the viscosity characteristics of Mazda 0W-20 and Mobil 1 0W-20 are suffiently different that anyone would ever be able to tell any difference in their performance? Or that anyone at Mazda would care if someone used Mobil 1?

As I pointed out previously, the Mazda 0W-20 is almost 30% lighter at room temperature and a whopping 40% at 32F, so yes you should easily be able to tell the difference.

As to whether anyone a Mazda would care if a customer used M1 instead, it doesn't really matter as it won't void the warranty if they you do, which of course is a good thing. I'm all in favour of freedom of choice. I'm just pointing how the Mazda oil differs from moost other 0W-20 available (and I haven't even mentioned the 675 ppm of moly).


I think those differences matter far more on paper than anywhere else. Kind of a forest/tree thing.

A 50 point difference in VI is hugh. To put the fact that the Idemitsu made Mazda 0W-20 is 40% lighter at 32F in perpective, the viscosity difference between a typicle 5W-20 and 5w30 is only 20%.
Additionally, if you have an oil pressure gauge it's very noticeable as dramatically lower oil pressure on start-up and the difference is still apparent at normal operating temp's. And even without an OP gauge I don't know of a single member who has switched to an ultra high VI 0W-20 like TGMO or the new Mazda oil who hasn't noticed the difference in terms of increased engine responsiveness on start-up and during warm-up.


Just to add to this point here.
I went from Pennzoil Platinum 5w-20 to Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0w-20 on this last oil change,and its not even a super high VI oil however The engine is noticeably more responsive especially at start up when I first get moving.
I used to think this whole VI stuff and thin oils was absurd and was a thicker is better type guy,but the more I use them the more I think that Caterham is on to something.
I saw a link today from Mobil themselves and it states a higher VI equates to less wear on an engine,so there has to be something to it.

 

[Clevy]

Probably because its acceptable,not optimal,and they likely get it cheap.
Just guessing