Don't prematurely dump the molybdenum assembly lube for the camshaft.
Maybe I'm crazy - changing engine oil at 500 miles
- Thread starter JeepJKU08
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If I ever did buy a brand new vehicle, which I likely never will, I would do the first oil change early... maybe not at 500 miles but probably around 25% of the recommended interval, then do the 2nd service when the first one was called for, and stay on schedule after that. It's not possible to say for sure if the early service will add to to the life of the engine, but I'm pretty sure there will be plenty of sparkles in that factory-installed oil filter. Filters don't catch everything and that first batch of oil will have more fine debris. I would want to get that stuff out of there and $30 is a small price to pay for that.
I did the same, changed at 500 mi. Wouldn't do it again though. In your case I'd probably do 7,500 just for the initial oil change. As for rather "safe than sorry" stuff it gets kind of sickening in this day and age. Oil these days is real good so it's just a pathetic waste of time and money not to take it close to it's intended life span. Changing it too often won't really make an engine last longer.
Personally I would NOT change the oil that early or often, but it’s your car / money, do whatever is best for you.
Changed my new ram a few weeks ago at 579 miles.
Man you guys are in to wasting time and money and shared resources.
I'll mark it up to irrational fear. I've been there. But I didnt get professional help,
I just noticed that in the over the 70+ brand new cars I have run in - It didn't help, and it did seem to hurt in some cases.
So I have changed my tune and my practices.
Now that D.I. disaster ...
I'll mark it up to irrational fear. I've been there. But I didnt get professional help,
I just noticed that in the over the 70+ brand new cars I have run in - It didn't help, and it did seem to hurt in some cases.
So I have changed my tune and my practices.
Now that D.I. disaster ...
Here I am looking at the VW app on my phone with 8,563 on the Tiguan's "break-in oil". A rebel without cause I must be.
Owen Lucas
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How did it hurt? Wouldn't it make sense to drain oil with break in shavings in it? Maybe not at 50 miles or even 500 but at 2000 instead of 10k makes sense to me. I know some engines in the factory are broken in on a bench, revved to max for a minute or so and they oil is not changed twice.
Owen Lucas
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Wouldn't the assembly lube get washed out after a few minutes of running?
The moly lube is only there the keep the cam lubed until the oil is splashed on it. Was more important with flat tappet cams. I used moroso moly paste on every cam. But after the oil hits it and lubes the cam well, it's not on the cam anymore. Especially after the oil gets hot. Most cams now are roller lifter, so minimal break-in needed. Just need a bit till the oil hits the cam on initial start up. After that, I want that oil with the grease in it out.
Shel_B
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How were you able to determine that changing the factory fill early didn't help? That's somewhat akin to proving a negative. Generally speaking, any damage done by "metal shavings" and the engine breaking in wouldn't manifest until later in an engine's life. How long did you keep these more-than-70 new cars and how did you examine the engines for wear? Likewise, in what way(s) did the engines suffer, and how were you able to make that determination without a teardown? Thanks ... hope you can clarify this for us.
Count me in. We left the factory oil in our '18 CR-V for 6200 miles. I think the OLM was somewhere between 0-10%. On average, our OCI has been 6000 miles, with a high of 8055 and a low of 4900, going mostly by the OLM. Typically changing it between 0-20% on the OLM, whenever is convenient.
Owen Lucas
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Performed Blackstone oil tests on first oil change of 2 different 2020 CRVs . First vehicle after 1 year and 3000 (OLM 20%) miles results showed TBN of 2 and next vehicle after 8 months at 6000 miles (OLM 30%) TBN was 1! I don't know if this is just crappy factory oil or the gasoline oil dilution is still a problem but I am now changing the oil at 3K for sure. Using Honda Premium Ultra synthetic.
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Filters are for completely separate threads ... you know that .
I did an oil analysis on our most recent oil change on the '18 CRV and we had a TBN of 2.2 on 4885 miles. I think for our driving style, 6000 miles is about right. My wife does not drive it hard at all, and there's a decent mix of city and highway miles (probably 60-70% city depending on the week). I'm surprised by the 1.0 TBN with 30% on the OLM...from what I've heard their OLM is one of the most accurate. But certainly not infallible. It could be that this particular one has it worse when it comes to fuel dilution.
I am talking about the engine breaking in properly and not subsequently using oil, having good cylinder balance and providing the rated fuel mileage or better while providing good torque and power and then noted in the first 50K miles of ownership.
As for the high car ownership count, I had problems finding a good car in the 80's and 90's. I am a car guy and a good driver is paramount - a really important part of my life. A lot of Fords had to go after only a couple months due to their being highly defective in various ways. My wife usually keeps a car for only three years due to her long commute and the desire to have the vehicle under warranty. She would get to 67K miles an need tires and brakes and timing belt at a cost of over 2000 dollars, so she got good money for the car in a trade deal and got a fresh, warrantied car.
She only had two "keepers" in the past three decades. A 1996 Subaru Impreza Wagon and the 2017 Crosstrek she just traded in. A 2009 Forester came close buy was let down by manufacturing defects.
The '96 Impreza got rear ended buy a large box truck and crushed up to the rear seat, So that was taken away from us. Skip to twenty years later, She was worried about high repair cost in the near future on the Crosstrek at 90k miles. It drove as new to me, but she wanted a new car - which is odd for her. Now she has a new Outback and hates it, as do I. The new Subaru have really been cost cut to where the interior bits are thin black plastic and look and feel like garbage and seat fabric and stitching and form is horrendous. Engine is noisy as all get out and sounds like it might grenade at any minute.
No Scientific method, just relating my long experience.
Funny every time I hear " shavings" in the oil I think of hand planing wood with a box plane
An oil filter better trap those shavings!
I think, currently, broaching is used more often with Aluminum blocks and heads and cam cases,
But a Boring bar would be more traditionally used in roughing a cylinder hole, main saddle bore or cam bore.
Here you can throw debris into the oiling system - so a proper cleaning - post machining - is quite important.
I can see pitfalls in this part of the process in high volume manufacturing.
-Ken
Never did an early "break-in" change on any new vehicle I've owned. MK4 Jetta went 220K on M1 0W40 before selling with min. oil consumption. Current Golf Sportwagen tuned/larger turbo blah blah blah went ~7K for first oil change on factory Castrol fill. No drama from all those "metal shavings". Doesn't use a drop of oil between changes. There is no evidence that I've ever seen you need to do this, it's all feel-good and hey, if that is what it is for you...cool.
I cease to believe the boil-off theory for GDI engines. Anyone have any concrete research?
The cars in Europe are super different than here. They are still making manual transmissions. Speed limits are generally lower, Autobahn aside. The goal is lower fuel consumption not zero-tailpipe emissions. Consumer protection laws are different. Octane ratings are different. It's not apples to apples to say European cars are less prone to GDI issues because they use a different oil.
The cars in Europe are super different than here. They are still making manual transmissions. Speed limits are generally lower, Autobahn aside. The goal is lower fuel consumption not zero-tailpipe emissions. Consumer protection laws are different. Octane ratings are different. It's not apples to apples to say European cars are less prone to GDI issues because they use a different oil.