MolaKule
Staff member
In post 53, are you seeing the fluid specification or the oil properties?
Maxlife ATF Compatibility
- Thread starter Carlostrece
- Start date
And does that show the proper Idemitsu supplied to dealer or manufacture fluid, as it would be the same designation as what is on the bottle you'd buy at the dealer?
Huh ?
I think at this point reason has been lost.
Carlostrece
$100 Site Donor 2025
Actually I now realize the local trans shop is leery of flushing an old trans, but not afraid to just drain the pan an refill.
You are so correct !
It is obvious that you didn't see the photo of the Idemistu barrel at a Honda dealer with the proper designation for the particular fluid. I think it is CVT fluid. What I am saying is that chart is not showing the proper Idemitsu fluid, since it has a different designation than DW-1
(designation ? according to dictionary is the name or title ie DW-1) Yeah I know I'm always the dummy.
1) Dealers (even Honda) don't always use the "right" fluid and will often use fluid that's said to be compatible by the fluid manufacturer. That dealer may be using Idemitsu's ATF that they claim compatibility with DW-1.
2) Honda DW-1 fluid will be in Honda-labeled packaging, whether 1-quart, 5-quart, 55-gallon, etc.
MolaKule
Staff member
In post 53, are you seeing the fluid specification or the oil properties?
Did you read the educational references in post #54?
I certainly don't pretend to understand the chemistry, etc. My question is, is MaxLife OK for cars like early Hondas and Toyotas? I have to believe there are bazillions of 250K - 300K and beyond transmissions happily running MaxLife.
So, does it matter just because it is not the same? Tha't my bottom line question.
So, does it matter just because it is not the same? Tha't my bottom line question.
It has to be. No way a company like Valvoline would risk claiming their ATF is compatible if it weren't. Honda supposedly formulated DW-1 to make shifts firmer. When I test drive a car, I always find an open road and mash the throttle from a stop specifically to FEEL how it shifts. If it shifts butter-smooth, that's fine and if it shifts with firm, but quick shifts, that's fine too. It's when it SLAMs into each gear or slips that you uncover that you know to walk (IMO).
Fluid makers do have products that are NOT compatible with certain OEM fluids and they either don't list them or they sell an entirely separate product. Isn't there a Chrysler fluid (ATF+4 ??) that's an oddball ? I'm not sure if Valvoline and others offer a substitute for Honda 10 or 11-speed transmissions either, do they ?
Yes post 53, shows no Idemitsu DW-1 it shows H. All apples to oranges on the chart.
Please explain who developed the chart? Did that come from Idemitsu?
I would like to hear their explanation, of those differences and what it means for sure.
Lets be honest, has anyone here seen the photo that I posted reference to? Yes or No?
You will need to call or write to these folks for all the info you seek.
Read what they say here about who they supply too.
https://www.idemitsulubricants.com/about-us/why-idemitsu
The table shows the fluids are not the same.
Sorry, but no. Valvoline may make their best attempt to match specs, those available to them, but this does NOT mean Maxlife matches the OEM fluid exactly. Just look at the claimed approval list, which is dozens of different OEM specs. There is NO WAY one fluid can match the fluid of all those different OEM's.
Bottom line (repeating myself here): Maxlife may work fine, or it may not. I doubt it will cause anyone's transmission to "fail". It may not shift correctly under all conditions, though.
As they say: you pays your money, and you takes your chances. After experiencing poor shift performance using Maxlife, I won't use it again. Your experience may vary.
I never suggested that "compatible" = "matches exactly".
Idemitsu doesn't sell an ATF called "DW-1". You claim to have seen a barrel of it though....
People bought those fluids and sent them to a lab to have the composition analyzed.
Post it
MolaKule
Staff member
You and @Exhaustgases missed the point entirely.
What you are seeing are oil properties, which are also listed in any TDS.
Definitions of specifications, etc., are listed in post #54.
Carlostrece
$100 Site Donor 2025
I know a lot more now than I did when I started this thread a couple months ago. I've been all over the Internet, read at many Honda forums, watched many Youtube videos and read comments, and joined one of the Honda forums. I've also read a lot of data sheets.
It's likely that someone did see an oil barrel at a Honda dealership with the Idemitsu logo and/or name on it. Why is this an argument? It's not a problem.
Idemitsu makes the OEM Honda brand oils, including DW-1. A possible exception might be Honda motor oils used in USA market.
In the recent past, I downloaded from a Honda dealership the Honda safety data sheets for Honda PSF and Honda DW-1. Both have the Idemitsu name and logo at top left of the data sheet.
It's entirely possible (likely) that a big barrel of Honda brand DW-1 would have both the Idemitsu and Honda names and/or logos on it.
Whether the barrel seen at the dealership was Honda brand oil made by Idemitsu, or Idemitsu brand oil made by Idemitsu is irrelevant.
Honda DW-1 ATF is made by Idemitsu to the specs that Honda thinks best for use in Hondas. Idemitsu Type H Plus ATF is made by Idemitsu to the specs that Idemitsu thinks best for use in Hondas.
If your car manual specifies Honda DW-1 ATF, you could save money by using Idemitsu Type H Plus ATF, or Valvoline Extended Protection Full Syn ATF, or Maxlife Full Syn ATF.
Many people have used Idemitsu Type H Plus ATF, Valvoline EP FS ATF, and Maxlife Full Syn ATF in Hondas longterm. They report the following experiences with these ATF in their Hondas:
Idemitsu Type H Plus ATF shifts smoother than DW-1.
Valvoline Extended Protection Full Syn ATF shifts smoother than DW-1.
Maxlife Full Syn ATF shifts same as DW-1, but Maxlife is better for preventing or reducing leaks.
Just make sure you don't accidentally use Maxlife Blend ATF. The Blend version comes in a similar looking red bottle that looks similar to the Maxlife Full Syn ATF red bottle. So make sure you see the words Full Syn on the Maxlife bottle.
If the dealership had a barrel of Honda DW-1 ATF with the word Idemitsu on it (in addition to word Honda) that is believeable and just fine. If the dealership had a barrel of Idemitsu Type H Plus ATF with the word Idemitsu on it, that is believeable and even better.
It's likely that someone did see an oil barrel at a Honda dealership with the Idemitsu logo and/or name on it. Why is this an argument? It's not a problem.
Idemitsu makes the OEM Honda brand oils, including DW-1. A possible exception might be Honda motor oils used in USA market.
In the recent past, I downloaded from a Honda dealership the Honda safety data sheets for Honda PSF and Honda DW-1. Both have the Idemitsu name and logo at top left of the data sheet.
It's entirely possible (likely) that a big barrel of Honda brand DW-1 would have both the Idemitsu and Honda names and/or logos on it.
Whether the barrel seen at the dealership was Honda brand oil made by Idemitsu, or Idemitsu brand oil made by Idemitsu is irrelevant.
Honda DW-1 ATF is made by Idemitsu to the specs that Honda thinks best for use in Hondas. Idemitsu Type H Plus ATF is made by Idemitsu to the specs that Idemitsu thinks best for use in Hondas.
If your car manual specifies Honda DW-1 ATF, you could save money by using Idemitsu Type H Plus ATF, or Valvoline Extended Protection Full Syn ATF, or Maxlife Full Syn ATF.
Many people have used Idemitsu Type H Plus ATF, Valvoline EP FS ATF, and Maxlife Full Syn ATF in Hondas longterm. They report the following experiences with these ATF in their Hondas:
Idemitsu Type H Plus ATF shifts smoother than DW-1.
Valvoline Extended Protection Full Syn ATF shifts smoother than DW-1.
Maxlife Full Syn ATF shifts same as DW-1, but Maxlife is better for preventing or reducing leaks.
Just make sure you don't accidentally use Maxlife Blend ATF. The Blend version comes in a similar looking red bottle that looks similar to the Maxlife Full Syn ATF red bottle. So make sure you see the words Full Syn on the Maxlife bottle.
If the dealership had a barrel of Honda DW-1 ATF with the word Idemitsu on it (in addition to word Honda) that is believeable and just fine. If the dealership had a barrel of Idemitsu Type H Plus ATF with the word Idemitsu on it, that is believeable and even better.
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MolaKule
Staff member
"Recommended (Industrial, Marketing) – This lubricant is not licensed by an OEM for the recommended listed coverage, but the manufacturer or blender believes it is appropriate because of internal or external testing, or the listed coverage is supported by the additive manufacturer who has tested the DI formulation in actual hardware.
"Recommended for the Following" DOES NOT imply the exact same chemistry as the OEM chemistry, but what it does imply is the viscosity, dynamic friction (shifting) characteristics, and other performance items are commensurate with the OEM fluid."
Please explain why they cannot.
Carlostrece
$100 Site Donor 2025
I agree.
Take Idemitsu Type H Plus (ITHP) ATF for example to compare to Honda DW-1 ATF. Same base oil, same viscosity, different additive package. Longterm users of ITHP say it shifts smoother than DW-1 and prefer ITHP.
They aren't exactly the same because a different approach was used with the additives to reach the goals. They are different, but that's not a bad thing. ITHP works very well and is reported by users to shift better than DW-1. Those users report preferring ITHP.
Likewise with Valvoline EP FS ATF. It's not the same as DW-1 ATF, but users report that V EP FS ATF shifts smoother and users report preferring V EP FS ATF.
Similar situation with Maxlife FS ATF.
Those ATF don't need to be exactly same as DW-1. They just need to work well in Honda and they do.
While it's not classified, top-secret information, who makes Honda DW-1 isn't publicly advertised beyond the SDS. Look at a quart bottle of Honda DW-1 and find "Idemitsu". You won't. It won't even say "Blended by Idemitsu to Honda of America specifications".
Those two sentences contradict each other.
Dealers order parts, fluids, etc from Honda of America. If they order "DW-1, 55-gallon", a Honda warehouse won't even have Idemitsu Type H and substitute it as equivalent fluid. Today, Idemitsu might make Honda's genuine DW-1, but tomorrow, Shell or Valvoline or Bob's Lubricants could make it.
Carlostrece
$100 Site Donor 2025
Just because you won't see the word Idemitsu on a bottle of DW-1 sold to the public does not mean the word Idemitsu can't be on an industrial size 50 gallon barrel of DW-1 or other Honda oil.
It's also possible that he might have seen a barrel of Idemitsu Type H Plus if that's what the dealer ordered.
Either way, I believe he saw the word Idemitsu on a large barrel of ATF at a Honda dealership because he said he did. I'm not the sort of person who would call an eye witness a liar when I wasn't even there. What kind of person would do that?
It doesn't matter if he saw a barrel of DW-1 or Type H Plus because both are fine for Hondas. I'd actually prefer to have Type H Plus in a Honda because it's better and lower cost. If it was some other oil, that's fine too if the dealership thinks it's compatible.
My statements were not contradictory. You didn't comprehend what I typed.
Not always. You're making assumptions. We don't know who that dealership ordered bulk oil from and we don't know what brand was ordered. Whatever brand it was, it's compatible in the dealer's opinion, which is good enough for me.
They might have ordered Idemitsu Type H Plus from Idemitsu. We don't know who the dealership ordered from or what they ordered.
That's unlikey, but anything is possible. Idemitsu has longterm relationships with Honda and other Japanese car brands.
I think you're making a big hallabaloo over nothing and derailing this thread.
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