Maxima recommendation for Stihl 4-mix

[lilspenny]

So.... as some of you know I have been kinda sorta performing short term testing of 2 cycle oils in my br800 blower. I ran out of patience with Stihl Ultra in previous machines due to carbon issues. I've tried Honda HP2 $16 per pint, VP full synthetic $10 per pint, Echo Red Armor $17 per pint, Schaeffer's 7000 outboard motor oil $23 per quart, and Amsoil Saber $13.29 per quart with membership. Each of those oils was run with various ratios and for enough time for me to see enough of what's what insofar as carbon on the piston and exhaust and residual lubrication in the valve spring area. Each of the above oils except for Amsoil Saber @ 50:1 and @ 64:1, produced more carbon than I find acceptable. The VP was very clean but dry at 50:1 and produced too much carbon @40:1. Red Armor left a varnish of sorts on the piston crown that wants to stay there. Saber @ 50:1 had a very slight surge that went away @ 64:1. Carb adjustment would not remedy that surge. So, Saber @ 64:1 works great but even Saber is not ashless like Stihl Ultra is said to be so there could be a future ash formation.

I wrote Royal Purple who said that their HP 2-C is not for Stihl 4-mix engines. Schaeffer's said they have nothing but I tried their outboard oil anyway. Belray (same guy as Royal Purple) gave a very vague response basically giving general 2-stroke options but no solid recommendation. Interesting that H1r was not listed. All of the oils listed as possible by Belray have a lower viscosity than Stihl Ultra. If any of you have ever tried gaining information from Klotz you know that it's not that easy as they keep lots of it proprietary.

So, I wrote Maxima. I received a quick response and their recommendation was Super M Injector, which did not come as a surprise due to it's viscosity 9.7 and 58.1 and flashpoint 342f, but it is a low ash oil... not ashless. I asked about Premium 2 ( 8.8, 51.7, 276f ) which is ashless and I was told I could try it, but not first choice. So, if I can hide my collection of 2 stroke oil bottles from my wife I'll probably keep testing. No hurry, as the Saber @64:1 is very clean, leaves a nice film, runs great, ... but what about ash? Not sure, but I will say without hesitation that Stihl Ultra runs dirty even at 50:1 and smells like boiled skunk butthole loops.

 

[Alex D]

Another boutique 2-stroke oil with a following is "Moto Milk" ... online (YT) reviews are positive.

 

[lilspenny]

Another boutique 2-stroke oil with a following is "Moto Milk" ... online (YT) reviews are positive.

Definitely on my radar!

 

[Fordiesel69]

Moto milk seemed like a social media scam but I must admit I am interested in knowing more about it.....

Genuine two cycle engines that I torn down with red armor looked silver clean. There must be something about the 4 mix engine where blowby gasses must varnish up the components. I personally don't have an application. Where ode want to run a 4 mix style engine. Stihl can keep it.

I guess in urban areas the lower tone is far desirable to genuine 2 stroke.

 

[2strokeNorthstar]

I use super m in all my 2 stroke motors.

 

[lilspenny]

Moto milk seemed like a social media scam but I must admit I am interested in knowing more about it.....

Genuine two cycle engines that I torn down with red armor looked silver clean. There must be something about the 4 mix engine where blowby gasses must varnish up the components. I personally don't have an application. Where ode want to run a 4 mix style engine. Stihl can keep it.

I guess in urban areas the lower tone is far desirable to genuine 2 stroke.

I wrote Amsoil and asked if they had seen evidence of ash buildup on 4-mix exhaust valves from using Saber and they said they had not. I can say that I have tried several oils in my three 4-mix machines -- fs100rx, fs131r, and br800 -- and Saber runs great at 50:1 and 64:1. Saber and VP both run clean but Saber actually cleans piston varnish that Red Armor left. I know that Red Armor has a great track record but I haven't seen that in my br800. Not to say Red Armor is not good enough, because it is. But, I'm looking for the best oil for my machines and so far Amsoil Saber looks the best. I have looked at valve stems, rocker arms, and the piston crown. With Red Armor I can tell within 20 minutes that the spark plug turned too black to continue. I thought Red Armor ran great and I was very disappointed that it wasn't the cleanest due to it's availability. Saber smells the best to me.

 

[lilspenny]

2 stroke northstar....

So... blowers and string trimmers... Which models? What ratio?

 

[2strokeNorthstar]

2 stroke northstar....

So... blowers and string trimmers... Which models? What ratio?

Echo weed wacker srm230, echo blower, currently, just got rid of a Stihl br450, over the years too many to remember. Usually 36:1-40:1 min 91 octane, same as my yz125 and jet skis. Makes it easy. Small engines seem to last longer than you want them with it.

 

[Fordiesel69]

What is so fascinating to me is thst red Armor has been a game changer for me in terms of all genuine 2 stroke engines I have from the tiny srm 225 up to my 390xp chainsaw. The ports are almost silver clean. Why red armor get varnish on the 4 mix is quite the mystery.

 

[lilspenny]

What is so fascinating to me is thst red Armor has been a game changer for me in terms of all genuine 2 stroke engines I have from the tiny srm 225 up to my 390xp chainsaw. The ports are almost silver clean. Why red armor get varnish on the 4 mix is quite the mystery. View attachment 321448View attachment 321449

Thanks for the pics and comment. I am in the process of running several different oils and will eventually get back to Red Armor. It's difficult to form a solid opinion when gasoline might be subpar so I'm gonna try again with the same gas as other oils. It takes time to run through tanks of gas when there is ice ice outside. Also,my original br800 dropped a pushrod thereby destroying the cam follower, cam, and probably a good bit of everything inside the cam chamber. That was with while running with Maxima Super M Injector oil, but I don't blame the oil. I blame the engine design. Stihl needs to abandon the current pushrod system and either go 2-stroke or use an overhead cam. A desmodromic system would be best. My dealer let me view the carnage and the cam follower was literally broken in half with pieces everywhere. The cam was scarred, and no telling what else was warped or clobbered into a malformed and useless condition. I thought that a valve must have been hung but that was not the case. So, why did the pushrod drop? The valves were not out of adjustment. My opinion is that the EPA needs to bug out and Stihl needs to quit hugging trees and develop a full line of 2 stroke equipment. Unlikely, as Echo now touts their pb-5810 four stroke as "next generation" and "professional-grade" even though the design is decades old. In string trimmers the 4-mix allows low speed work which is nice, but is the complicated design really necessary? In my opinion Stihl is refined well beyond Echo and it's quite evident just by looking at the exposed hoses, carburetor, and sparkplug wires on Echo machines. But, there is a price to pay for such. Stihl is leaving money on the table by being so stubborn insofar as 4-mix and their FB rated oil. Or... Oil with no rating, ie orange bottle.

 

[Bwalker]

What is so fascinating to me is thst red Armor has been a game changer for me in terms of all genuine 2 stroke engines I have from the tiny srm 225 up to my 390xp chainsaw. The ports are almost silver clean. Why red armor get varnish on the 4 mix is quite the mystery. View attachment 321448View attachment 321449

The results you note from red armor are probably tuning or load related...
Couple other things. No two cycle oil "cleans". Just doesn't happen and not from lack of trying various oils and inspecting.
Flash point is a useless number for determing quality. Its only telling you the flash point of the diluent and not the base oil. As it pertains to diluent the lower the flash the better.

 

[D1dad]

Stihl synthetic cause issues? I wouldn’t think outboard oil would be the answer. We ran orange bottle Dino lube for 1000s of hours back in the day and never a failure. Of course we never tore them down to see what the innards looked like. We even eyeballed it a few times in the saw itself at days end when we ran out of mix and were dragging our behinds. I’ve been working through some husqvarna low smoke or I’d be using stihl oil.