Amsoil Synthetic 2-Stroke Oil Vs. Stihl

[boraticus]

I run conventional two cycle oil mixed at approx. 37:1. Too many machines to be ratio specific. Rather have a bit too much oil than not enough. Never have plug fouling issues, engine start /run great and last forever. With a winning formula like that, don't see the need to change brand nor type of oil.

Cujet obviously has the credentials to back up his advice, which seems to coincide with mine.

The strange thing is that premium synthetic two cycle oil manufacturers specify that their oil can be mixed at 100:1 ratio but in reality, it's unwise to. So, why spend a great deal more money for an oil that will not provide anywhere near the same percentage of protection or value for the extra cost? I'll never get my head around that.

 

[Oil Changer]

I didn't mention it in my original post but since it has been brought up, I run all my 2 strokes at 32:1. I don't care what oil it is. I don't care what the manual says.

I learned this from a couple of Canadian brothers who worked as loggers most of their lives. Their chainsaws were their lives.

On my machines that spec 50:1, the only time I have issues is when I baby them. Run 'em hard and they run good. By problems I mean they bog down when I go from part/light to full throttle. Give it second and no problems.

That 50:1 stuff is for the tree huggers not the tree cutters.

 

[Oil Changer]

BTW,

I use M1 racing 2T. Thank heaven I stocked up on that stuff. Great, great oil.

 

[jpstiles02]

Well I did the yearly maintenance on the Stihls, changed the plugs(Bosch) air filter, removed spark arrestor screens (25% plugged) and, drained fuel with fresh conventional 89 @ a 75:1 with the amsoil synthetic saber! Ready to go!!!

 

[boraticus]

"I learned this from a couple of Canadian brothers who worked as loggers most of their lives. Their chainsaws were their lives."

That's the difference between the guys who supply the wood to make magazines and the ones that sit on their sofas reading them. The former group actually know what they're talking about.

 

[Cujet]

Ahh, the 2 stroke anecdote of the day. I just pulled the muffler off of my 1999 Husqvarna 345 chainsaw. It's seen a very hard life, as it's cleared a number of lots, cut hundreds if not thousands of trees down, done serious hurricane cleanup and more recently general maintenance of my 2 acre and 12 acre properties.

I use 100LL Avgas, mixed at 32 to 1 with Mobil 1 MX2t (racing 2t)

The exhaust side of the piston is perfectly clean, there is no blow by or scratches what so ever on the skirt, the cylinder is full of perfect cross hatch and there was no carbon at all in the muffler.

The engine remains perfect, the rest of the machine is very beat up and has deteriorated to the point of needing to be thrown out. But, I'm fixing it again anyway. I love this saw. (Oh, and I generally use a Stihl full chisel chain for speed)

2 stroke perfection!

 

[boraticus]

I've got a couple of mid 80s Jonsereds saws. A 630 and a 670. Both have seen a lot of serious work and both still run like the day I bought them. Anyone with a basic understanding mechanics and two cycle engines should understand that stretching the oil ratio is not a good thing.

People will drop $14.00 for a quart of Amsoil then starve the engine of essential lubrication. That doesn't make sense no matter what the oil manufacturer claims.

I doubt very much that people running 70 or 100:1 in their equipment will see the long term service and reliability we've experienced.

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: boraticus


People will drop $14.00 for a quart of Amsoil then starve the engine of essential lubrication.


Amsoil Saber is NOT $14 quart and people using Amsoil 2 stroke oil are not "starv(ing) the engine of essential lubrication."

Amsoil Saber costs less than the Stihl 2 stroke oil and if they want they can run it at 50:1 and there will be plenty of oil.

 

[boraticus]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: boraticus


People will drop $14.00 for a quart of Amsoil then starve the engine of essential lubrication.


Amsoil Saber is NOT $14 quart and people using Amsoil 2 stroke oil are not "starv(ing) the engine of essential lubrication."

Amsoil Saber costs less than the Stihl 2 stroke oil and if they want they can run it at 50:1 and there will be plenty of oil.


I don't buy Stihl oil either. I pay around $3.00 a liter for excellent conventional oil and mix it at around 37:1. Been doing it for decades.

Between my vintage motorcycles, outboard motors, snowmobiles, and OPE, I use a lot of two cycle oil. I generally buy two cycle oil by the 5 liter container and pay as little as $13.00/jug.

You're right Pablo. I was wrong quoting $14.00/liter. It's actually $14.99. Here's proof:

Amsoil Price

 

[Pablo]

If Canadian Tire wants to charge that much they can!

But you may want to study the topic of this thread. Just saying.

 

[nomochevys]

I have been running stihl 2 stroke oil at 50 to 1 in all of my stuff for years. My question is who makes the stihl oil?

 

[Panzerman]

Just to throw my two cents in, since I own more two strokes than four strokes in my household and have hands on experience with engines and teardowns, I so far agree 100% with everyone of Boraticus's posts, especially where people will buy the very best oil then run it at crazy high ratios. You must understand thats all the oil that motor gets, there is no crankcase oil. Imagine running your car on half the crankcase oil, will it run awhile-probably, will it be a good thing, it might improve your gas milelage, less oil to move, but no its never a good thing. I run 40:1 with about any modern two stroke oil, I did try Amsoil at 50:1. It did give me good performance, but not good enough to warrant the extra cost. Any oil from 32:1 tp 50:1 is my suggestion, you arent going to hurt anything at that ratio. I still have my original weedeater, after 15 years, that I use every week. Running full blast at 32:1 conventional Castrol TC oil.(cheapest oil they make).

 

[boraticus]

"I still have my original weedeater, after 15 years, that I use every week. Running full blast at 32:1 conventional Castrol TC oil.(cheapest oil they make)."

I've got a 1984 Stihl brush cutter, a couple Jonsereds saws from the 80's a Tecumseh 2 cycle powered ice auger from 1982, outboard motors from the 70s, 80s and newer, snowmobiles from the 80s, a few 70s Yamaha two cycle motorcycles, 60s, 70s and 80s two cycle Lawn Boy mowers plus many more pieces of equipment old and new. In my years of ownership of the above, everything has seen nothing but a steady diet of Motomaster TC3 and TCW3 mixed at 37:1 or so for my air cooled stuff and 50:1 to 70:1 for my liquid cooled outboards depending on specification.

Decades of use/experience with dozens of two cycle engines and never an issue should say something about what's required or not.

I know the original post was a discussion about choosing between Stihl and Amsoil however, if there is no clear advantage to use either of them, why endure the extreme increase in price when there is no clear advantage in engine protection?

 

[Panzerman]

TCW3 is not the best oil to use in a air cooled two stroke. You may be getting away with it. But you have to be careful, some of that tcw3 oil is biodegradable garbage for "safe discharge into water" I prefer the TC oil rating to be on the bottle too.

 

[boraticus]

Originally Posted By: Panzerman
TCW3 is not the best oil to use in a air cooled two stroke. You may be getting away with it. But you have to be careful, some of that tcw3 oil is biodegradable garbage for "safe discharge into water" I prefer the TC oil rating to be on the bottle too.


I use nothing but TC3 in all of my air cooled engines and TCW3 in outboards only.

Strange thing though, I bought a new Toro 221QE single stage snow blower and the manual specifies TCW-3. Not a happening thing.

I've seen TCW-3 recommended in other air cooled engine manuals as well.

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: boraticus

I know the original post was a discussion about choosing between Stihl and Amsoil however, if there is no clear advantage to use either of them, why endure the extreme increase in price when there is no clear advantage in engine protection?


You know it, but you still jump in and don't answer the question. If you want to start your own threads, you are welcome to do so.

Bottom line here: Amsoil is better at a lower cost than Stihl.

 

[boraticus]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: boraticus

I know the original post was a discussion about choosing between Stihl and Amsoil however, if there is no clear advantage to use either of them, why endure the extreme increase in price when there is no clear advantage in engine protection?


You know it, but you still jump in and don't answer the question. If you want to start your own threads, you are welcome to do so.

Bottom line here: Amsoil is better at a lower cost than Stihl.


Yeah, I must apologize Pablo.

I know I'm one of the participants here who have to control their desire to provide people with unbiased opinions, guidance and advice.

Gotta keep a lid on that kind of activity. Right?

 

[occity79]

Hello;

Which of the Stihl oils are you asking about? They make an ash-less "Ultra" synthetic that (I think ) is great oil but the price is really too high.

Sorry I have no experience with the Amsoil.

If you want a really good performance for the money check out Mystik Ultimate HP (ash-less also) ($31.00 per gallon). Meets ALL specs of all two strokes. Fully certified unlike the Amsoil.

My thoughts on the LawnBoy / Toro 2 cycles in snowthrowers needing a TCW-3 oil- the cylinder is iron(or steel) unplated, and they only rev to 3000 -4000 rpm, so maybe a low ash (air cooled) oil will tend to form a "goo" at the lower temps in these motors.

An ashless oil TCW3 would fit that motor better due to lower operating temps and rpm, plus TCW3 has a rust protection additive (iron cylinder) as part of the TCW3 requirement.

 

[boraticus]

Originally Posted By: occity79
Hello;

Which of the Stihl oils are you asking about? They make an ash-less "Ultra" synthetic that (I think ) is great oil but the price is really too high.

Sorry I have no experience with the Amsoil.

If you want a really good performance for the money check out Mystik Ultimate HP (ash-less also) ($31.00 per gallon). Meets ALL specs of all two strokes. Fully certified unlike the Amsoil.

My thoughts on the LawnBoy / Toro 2 cycles in snowthrowers needing a TCW-3 oil- the cylinder is iron(or steel) unplated, and they only rev to 3000 -4000 rpm, so maybe a low ash (air cooled) oil will tend to form a "goo" at the lower temps in these motors.

An ashless oil TCW3 would fit that motor better due to lower operating temps and rpm, plus TCW3 has a rust protection additive (iron cylinder) as part of the TCW3 requirement.


Interesting theory regarding the TCW-3 in air cooled engines. You might be right in that in a snow blower application the engine might not develop sufficient heat to require TC-3. However, I doubt very much that the same engine will have any adverse effects by using TC-3. I've been using it for decades in all forms of two cycle engines. Never a problem.

Personally, I think that TCW-3 is likely more environmentally friendly and meets the basic requirements of the engines whose manufacturer recommends the use of it.

Not that I'll be using it in my air cooled OPE. I'll stick with tC-3.

 

[occity79]

Borticus;

Yes, I have been torn on this point myself, Air Cooled but they say to use TCW3? I have to trust the engineers, but I like to do my own experiments.

I am going to run some Lubrication Engineers Monolec 8104 next, this is a low ash TC rated oil, but the data sheet says OK for lawn mowers, saws, etc... Monolec sounds like a form of Moly additive, so I like that! Plus it states on the data sheet it's loaded with anti rust additive, so I feel it could be the perfect oil overall